Do we need expensive hand tools?

[Christos]

This is an interesting question in that I have been thinking and reading the responses that people have given. Some have been from a personal perspective and I would expect that, because after all that is what this hobby is about.

So my reply will be from a personal perspective and a journey that I am still traveling.

Originally I had no idea about tools, I was relaying on friends and the advise that is given from the hardware stores. Well you can imagine the limitation this has. The availability of the internet and this forum has widen my field quite considerably. This foundation has allowed me to make decisions with knowledge that I otherwise did not have.

Considering this knowledge I would not call tools expensive but prefer to use the term considerably higher priced. Of which I currently have very cheap, second hand and considerably higher priced. I have acquired these via a very simple philosophy.

I need a tool to get this task completed.

But I have added to this philosophy, as you would.

I need a tool to get this task completed and what else can I use it for.

The timing is not always the best as when I am in the middle of a task I prefer to complete that task and continue with my project.

I remember a movie Gran Torino which Clint Eastwood was the main actor. In that movie and without giving away the plot there was a scene between Walt(Clint Eastwood) and Theo in the garage. Where Theo ask the question to Walt; "How did you acquire so many tools?" Walt's reply; "One tool at a time"

[nummins]

I've spent loads of money on tools and don't regret it, although time spent on setting up and maintaining machinery is a PITA that wears thin. It is a hobby that can cost a lot, but so too can things like being into cars or boats and the like. At the other end of the spectrum I guess there is chess, but perhaps there are expenses there I don't know about. Another perspective is that I am not spending money on drugs, gambling or women - so how bad can it be?

[FenceFurniture]

It is the best hammer I have ever used and it has only ever had 4 new handles and 2 new heads. Hows that for a good use from a 2nd hand tool.

I thought this only happened with axes?

[silentC]

Originally it was a ship, but I first heard it about a broom. Same broom for 20 years: 17 new heads and 14 new handles. Trigger on Only Fools and Horses.

[FenceFurniture]

The availability of the internet and this forum has widen my field quite considerably. This foundation has allowed me to make decisions with knowledge that I otherwise did not have.

Amen to that Christos. Whatever my level of tool knowledge might be, 90% or more of it has come from this forum in the last four years. I think the most important thing I learnt was "buy well, buy once", and "well" does not necessarily mean expensive, but it sometimes means spending more. This is also the key to resale-ability - buying a tool of quality, knowing that for good reason they are sought after, not only increases the value of one's collection (minor, but still relevant) it increases the chances of being able to sell it later either if needs must or as an inheritance. I know for certain that my tool collection won't be one of those that either gets thrown in the tip or sold off for a pittance to whomever. There will be quite specific instructions in my will - which reminds me that I must update it.....

I remember a movie Gran Torino which Clint Eastwood was the main actor.....(snip)... Walt's reply; "One tool at a time"

Yeah, damned good film. Clint finally found his perfect role - as a grumpy old bugger. I suspect he'd been gravitating towards such roles increasingly for some time. He may be "okay" as an actor, but he's a magnificent director.

[derekcohen]

... perhaps another post, one that this time does not get deleted by Big Brother

Rarely do tools make a woodworker. I have watched woodworkers in Bali carving intricate designs with homemade chisels and sharpening on just the single oilstone, using the ground for a bench and a leg hooked over the work piece for a clamp. At the same time, I have held a smoother by Karl Holtey or Konrad Sauer (no, not mine) and marvelled at the workmanship, imagining how much pleasure it would be to use this in building a piece of furniture. I could not work to the level of the Bali carvers using their tools, and the Sauer smoother will stutter and fail if the blade is dull. One must not equate quality of tools alone with quality of woodwork.

Is vintage cast steel better than modern PM steel? It all depends. It depends on what wood you work (how abrasive it is). It depends on what you use to hone your blades. Vintage steels look great to those using only oilstones, who would hate resistant steels like HSS. PM steel is fantastic for those working hard, abrasive woods.

Is a vintage Stanley outclassed by a modern Sauer? It all depends. There is little doubt that the Sauer will be better finished and easier to adjust. Sometimes the advantages of quality are not apparent, and may never become so when the circumstances do not permit them. Which plane works best depends on the wood you are working (straight grained vs interlocked) and your experience in working with it, plus your knowledge and experience in getting the best out of each. For example, I have a Marcou smoother that planes anything and everything thrown at it. At the same time I am capable of setting a chip breaker on a Stanley to do the same. Can you? And this does not mean that I use the Marcou a lot. I don’t. Or that I prefer a Stanley. There are reasons why a lesser plane may be used, and this may simply be that it has the one sharp blade!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ratbag]

What a fascinating read! I think one common thread through most, if not all replies is that the user is more relevant than the maker to the standard of output.

I'm delighted that we are able to express opinions here without castigation, too. It becomes more of a discussion than a debate then, which is helpful to all.

But those swank new tools do look swell. Here in Tas. there's little or no access to truly high quality tools, but occasionally one pops up. A couple of years back I was in buying some sanding discs and staring wistfully at a big cast iron router table with sliding table....that Taiwanese/Chinese heavy engineering is pretty impressive.

Come settling up time I noticed a weird looking block plane behind the counter, apparently Lee Valley's latest: sort of a chrome-plated take on what George Jetson or Buck Rogers might use with a 60s retro/modernist theme. Would it work well on end-grain? Who knows, the smart-alec salesman wouldn't let me near it. Guess I'm a bit suss looking. How much? Wouldn't know, but I'm guessing not much change from a couple of hundred or so. It was one of those; if you've got to ask, then don't!

Would I like one.... well I've been thinking about that too. The attraction was surely there, but I'm afraid she's just right out of my league. Somehow it just wouldn't seem "right" to blow so much on so simple a tool. More to the point, I think I'd be vaguely embarrassed to be seen using such a wanton extravagance! Not that I care a whit for other's approval: simply put, it would be impolite to flaunt such "eye candy" in public.

I don't know who bought it; it wasn't there next time. Possibly a braver and more extravagant soul than I. Someone seduced by the curvaceous lines, the glitter of the chrome, the promise of all that inherent performance embodied in it's feminine curves. To me it's the equivalent of a trophy wife: to the purchaser, well it was obviously good value.

But to give Lee Valley, and other designers/innovators their due, congratulations for a brave and defiant take on what is for a mere pleb like me a fairly basic and relatively crude tool. A dash of style, a pinch of inspiration, and a gobbet of bravado. It's what keeps the world turning, and us moving forward.

I hope s/he enjoys her purchase, and does good work with it.

[FRB Design]

In reality these type of questions only exist in forum land which gives the opportunity for some to indulge their egos buy thinking people care about what tools they own and reasons for using them,poor mans tools or rich mans tools the piece or project your working on does not care. Respect in woodworking and for master craftsman isn't earned by the tools he owned but in his life time will acquire what he so desires to work his craft.
One reason I say "forum land" is ask yourself this question, if you have the chance to be invited into a highly regarded and respected woodworkers workshop i:e someone with an actual body of work not someone who turns out two or three peices a year, it would be highly offensive to start asking him to justify to you why he purchased any of his tools. However he would appreciate that you have a respect for any of the tools he uses to create his peices work. Usually you will find they talk about joinery,timber,finishing and very little on the tools they use but when you look at the quality of his work and look across and see a set of old irwin blues! Hmmmm!
But on the other hand if he was to visit another woodworkers workshop where the work is nowhere near the standard it should be , he will show you the same respect for what ever you are making and most likely offer guidance and help. But on the chance he turns around and see's tools that he thinks are beyond the skill levels and some tools you just don't need,normally what happens is this person starts to justify to the craftsman why he has them and the reasons for this and that,note,he hadn't asked you. Although silently he has already formed his opinion ,and we all know what that opinion is. Silently he just doesn't care. This is no disrespect for forums but there is a lot more than that to be said for hands on than reading a couple of posts and looking at couple of pics that someone has pre prepared everything in it which usually includes a couple of well placed tools.

Money well spent on classes and hands on in the beginning is going to benefit you as a maker far more that a bit of tool bling. In two fold you could say support some local makers by taking there classes (so they can buy some more nice tools, hence supporting local tool makers JUST KIDDING) I personally do not buy tools or take a class to support anyone , buying a tool or taking a class for those reasons is ridiculous. The only one resposable for there survival is themselves.


Frank.

[JDarvall]

. Another perspective is that I am not spending money on drugs, gambling or women - so how bad can it be?

well, all your excess money could go towards something, that in reality, is far far far more important….things like starving innocent children….saving the planet etc. (not a guilt trip, just a reality to me that defeats all argument on topics such as this.)

people will always find ways to justify their wants, including myself.

Its really all semantics to me…. thats why…..you may as well be talking about orang-utans with hand saws.

just an opinion. not an expert on reality. 2 cents worth.

[auscab]

….saving the planet etc.

Saving the planet , good luck .
You know one day the sun is going to swallow it up What kind of car I drive or how much cows fart doesn't mean a thing .

[JDarvall]

Saving the planet , good luck .
You know one day the sun is going to swallow it up What kind of car I drive or how much cows fart doesn't mean a thing .

ok, well…how about saving innocent children. Dying daily from very preventable diseases ….. refugees living in shiiit holes….etc etc . Just quietly, and kindly…. YES, IT DOES MEAN A THING !….. I won't make a big deal of the obvious we 'need' to overlook though. cause , uno, I might look hypocritical. I want(I mean NEED) things too !!!!! (not really smiling like that. I just couldn't find a orang-utan smilie)

[Christos]

....... !!!!! (not really smiling like that. I just couldn't find a orang-utan smilie)

One day I am sure someone will create an Orang-utan smilie.

[auscab]

ok, well…how about saving innocent children. Dying daily from very preventable diseases ….. refugees living in shiiit holes….etc etc . Just quietly, and kindly…. YES, IT DOES MEAN A THING !….. I won't make a big deal of the obvious we 'need' to overlook though. cause , uno, I might look hypocritical. I want(I mean NEED) things too !!!!! (not really smiling like that. I just couldn't find a orang-utan smilie)

Sure it does . But I didnt Quote you on the kids MAN . and if you have a good idea on how to fix it you shouldnt be sitting at your computer right now but should be running off to do something about it . shouldnt you ?

[FenceFurniture]

Frank, I agree with pretty much all of what you said. Just a couple of things to expand on briefly, and not by way of disagreement:

In reality these type of questions only exist in forum land

I think this is just a function of a place where an extraordinary number of like minded people coalesce, and that has never happened before the internet (in such numbers, and with such ease). So yes, these kind of questions probably do only exist on forums - but that's ok.

and looking at couple of pics that someone has pre prepared everything in it which usually includes a couple of well placed tools.

As someone who did Industrial/Commercial photography for a crust, adding some tools to a pic for composition is exactly what I might do back in the day. I would always check in the relevance of the tool with the people who knew what they were doing (I worked across numerous industries - jack of none, and master of less).

There are essentially three types of commercial photograph:

1. Landscape/Natural History/Travel/Hospitality - where composition, light, elements, and a very good to excellent overall standard is the benchmark, and less than that is not worth taking (providing the client is willing to spend the money for the time to achieve it).
2. Advertising/Marketing across all the industries - one tries to be as creative as possible to produce an interesting result - this is not always possible of course.
3. Scientific style of photograph where information is everything, and everything else I've nominated means nothing. They can be combined, but most executors of this style don't know how to, or couldn't be bothered. They are mostly stupendously boring pics, except to someone with an interest in the info provided.

All three styles are valid.


Now old habits die hard, and if I'm trying to do a "nice" pic to put up here (as opposed to a pic that's just supplying or needing information) then I like to make it as visually appealing as I can, but within sensible limits(coz nobody pays me for the time anymore ). That might mean that I'll put a tool that I've been using back into that scene, or perhaps leave another unused tool where it happens to lie (maybe give it a compositional nudge).

In other words, I'll take all three types of pics, where appropriate.

I take what I think is your point though - adding a "name" tool for the hell of it (i.e. not used as part of the process) or making sure the brand of a tool that has been used is readable for the sake of it etc is just posing - not relevant to the viewers on here.

However, in a different medium, the same pic with the same "name" inclusions can be just what is required, so if the pic has more than one use then all bases have to be covered, otherwise more pics are required (which is sometimes the way it is).

[JDarvall]

Sure it does . But I didnt Quote you on the kids MAN . and if you have a good idea on how to fix it you shouldnt be sitting at your computer right now but should be running off to do something about it . shouldnt you ?

Well NO I'm not going to. I WANT (I mean NEED) things. I'm not going to even attempt it. I'm going to follow my elders. Follow the normalised flow of justification for wanting (shiiit ! I mean NEED. Keep getting these things confused) . Its not possible for me to contribute towards saving children by buying say a cheap economical car over buying a efen(automatic spelling trys to convert efen to even ) ferrari. right ?

How dare you tell me what I need ! honestly.

Auscab ! …..do you even like orangutangs ?