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  1. #1
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    Default Rust Prevention on Machinery & Tools - yet again ....

    Over the last few months, I've spent some time reading through this forum and others searching for posts discussing the various methods of preventing rust from forming on base cast iron and bare steel tools.

    For a few years, I'd been a regular user of Silver Glide (SiberGleit) on table saw and band saw tables - until recently. Back in July, I had a month away from the shed due to illness. When I got back into the shed in August, I found that the surfaces treated with Silver Glide had started to corrode - quite badly in some areas. The Lathe Beds and other equipment that had been treated with Inox were had some rust, and had attracted a thick film of dust and other corruption due to the oily film that Inox leaves on the surfaces. I don't use Inox anywhere where it might come into contact with timber as any traces of Inox that get onto the timber cause finishing problems. Two near new Wood River hand planes that had been treated with Camellia Oil and then stored in a cupboard now have extensive rust on them (that still needs to be sorted out with the EvapoRust).

    So while cleaning up the rusty mess, I started looking for a new Rust Prevention strategy for the workshop. After much searching, I found a very relevant article in my back issue collection of Fine Woodworking Magazine. Fine Woodworking Magazine Jul/Aug 2012 (Issue No: 227) has an article titled "Got Rust? New Protectants thrashed old favourites...". I can't reprint the article here due to copyright restrictions, but if you don't have that issue in your collection, then the article is available for download from the magazine's web site: http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-t...reventers.aspx. It is a member only download, but my free membership allowed me to download a copy.

    The article covers side by side testing of twenty commonly used workshop rust prevention products. The majority of products tested are available in Australia. And of course, Australian products such as Inox and the Lanoline based products, were not included in the testing done by Fine Woodworking.

    Because of the length of the article, providing a precis of the article, without loosing important content, is difficult ..... but I'll try.

    Fine Woodworking's testing methodology was to use an old cast iron table saw top as their main test piece. They also tested twenty sample pieces of A2 Tool Steel to see which rust protector worked best on tool steel. They used part of the cast iron top as the untreated control. The rest of the cast iron table was divided up into twenty small squares and each square was treated with one of the rust protectant products. The test pieces were then placed outside the building under an overhanging roof, so the pieces were exposed to overnight dew and sunlight, but not rain. They also did some tests to see if each of the products had any adverse effect on finishing, if traces of the product got onto the bare wood.

    Out of the twenty products tested, "CRC 3-36 Dry Lubricant" got the gong as "Best Overall". Photo, product description and PDF links are from the CRC Industries Web Site (http://www.crcindustries.com.au/instant-protection)
    CRC 3-36.jpg
    CRC 3005 3-36 AEROSOL 300GM


    CRC 3-36 prevents rust and corrosion by displacing and sealing out moisture and by forming a continuous protection barrier against water and oxygen.

    Link to MSDS:
    http://www.crcindustries.com.au/assets/files/msds/3.36-3005-msds.pdf

    Link to Technical Data Sheet:
    http://www.crcindustries.com.au/assets/files/tds/3.36-3005-tds.pdf




    WD-40, 3M Rust Fighter, and a couple of others achieved good results, but either left the treated surface feeling sticky and/or the product interfered with finishing if traces of the product got onto wood.

    There were some surprises where long trusted products (e.g. Camellia Oil, Jojoba Oil, BoeShield, and others) failed live up to expectations in Fine Woodworking's tests. (Note added 19 October 2014: As many of these products have a good reputation, I suspect that the unexpected poorer performance of some of these products could possibly have been due to the actual weather conditions experienced during the time that Fine Woodworking conducted their tests, or may potentially be due to differences in the way in which each of the products were applied. Your personal experience may vary from their test results for many reasons.)

    So, in early September 2014, I got hold of some CRC 3-36, and started using it on all bare cast iron and steel in my workshop. You won't find CRC 3-36 in places like Mitre 10, Bunnings, or Masters. I ended up getting it from Blackwoods - roughly $8.00 for a pressure pack can.

    Most items in my workshop have only been treated once with 3-36. The Table Saw table, the Band Saw table, and the Planer/Thicknesser tables, are re-treated at the end of the day after each use in case the 3-36 coating has rubbed off. I've also treated two pieces of clean mild steel with 3-36 and placed them out in the weather on top of a fence post. After a month, the test pieces that are siting out in the weather are still rust free.

    Obviously, my testing so far has been pretty limited, so only long term testing will provide conclusive results. And testing through the upcoming Queensland summer humidity over the next few months will give a much better idea of the effectiveness of CRC 3-36.

    I'll keep testing, and I'll post some updates (good or bad) as things progress. It would be good to hear from anyone else who has tried CRC 3-36 with good or bad results.

    Regards,

    Roy
    Last edited by RoyG; 19th October 2014 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Fix typos & add product information
    Manufacturer of the Finest Quality Off-Cuts.

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  3. #2
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    Default CRC 3-36 Update

    I've now been using CRC 3-36 to protect the bare cast iron and steel surfaces on my machinery for a few months. The sample of mild steel that I treated with CRC 3-36 and then placed outside on top of a fence post has not developed any corrosion, and that's with being exposed to some very wet and humid weather over the last few weeks.

    However, on machinery tables, I've found that I need to regularly re-treat with CRC 3-36 whenever the machinery is being used regularly. My router table has a cast iron table that has only been used a few times in the last two months. It hasn't been re-treated yet, and is not so far showing any sign of rust developing.

    However, the tablesaw and bandsaw tables have both been in regular use and have needed re-treating about every three weeks to prevent rust forming. Most of the hand planes that I've treated with 3-36 have been used regularly. I've found that unless I re-treat them with 3-36 at the end of each day's use of the hand tools, rust will start to form where my hands have touched the tool, so I re-treat any hand tools at the end of day whenever they've been used. One plane that hasn't been used since it was treated two months ago is still pristine.

    I'm using my old Carbatec tablesaw cast iron top as the 'control' in these tests, and have continuing to treat the old Carbatec saw with furniture wax, following the process I'd previously used for the last few years before changing to CRC 3-36. If I use the old saw and fail to put more wax on it at the end of the day, it will usually show the beginnings of rust within a day or two, especially in humid weather, and in rainy weather you can almost see the rust forming. So, the furniture wax isn't standing up as well as the CRC product.

    So - that's the progress report on the CRC3-36.


    Regards,

    Roy
    Manufacturer of the Finest Quality Off-Cuts.

  4. #3
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    Default

    Roy, Do you need to wipe the CRC 3-36 off the machine/tools before using them with wood?

    Have you found any issues at all with discolouration of finishes?
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  5. #4
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    Default Rust Free.

    Hi Roy,
    2 things, I have only wooden draws for my smaller hand tools, covered with an old Tea Towel that was saturated with the Repontuer?, for shoes & boots, being mainly Lanolin.
    My friend wraps his in Glad Wrap, Cling Wrap or the like.
    That also works.
    Of course we in Vic don't really have your weather problems.
    Regards,
    issatree.
    Have Lathe, Wood Travel.

  6. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    Roy, Do you need to wipe the CRC 3-36 off the machine/tools before using them with wood?

    Have you found any issues at all with discolouration of finishes?
    DSEL74,

    I originally got the idea of trying CRC 3-36 after reading the Fine Woodworking Magazine article that is linked in the first post above. During the magazine's testing of various products, one of the factors they tested was whether the anti-corrosion product left a residue that would impact on a woodworking finish. In their test results, Fine Woodworking said that the residue left by CRC 3-36 seemed to have no adverse impact on a finish, or on the bare wood, provided that the 3-36 had dried.

    3-36 is solvent based and goes on wet (CAUTION: the solvent smell is pretty strong if you've got the workshop closed up). I don't wipe it after applying the 3-36. I just let it smooth itself out and it dries overnight. In the morning, the surface will have a slightly waxy feel that will dry off completely in a few days.

    A few local woodworkers in my area are trialling 3-36 now, mainly because in Queensland we have such a huge corrosion problem because of the very high humidity and high temperatures in summer. So far, I've heard two negative comments about CRC 3-36. The first negative comment was from a hand tool woodworker who doesn't like the waxy feel of the tools when they've been coated with 3-36, if he has to use the tools on the same day that they are treated. He solved that problem by treating his handtools at the end of the working day.

    The other negative comment was from a woodworker who bought had a finish failure with an oil based poly finish that blistered in patches. He also complained that the CRC left an oily residue that stained the bare wood and had to be sanded off. This report was quite alarming, if it was true, so a few of us investigated further. When we visited his workshop the next day, he certainly did have a nasty case of finish failure. After a bit of head scratching, he ceremoniously threw his can of "CRC" in the bin. I quickly retrieved it to have a closer look as it was not the Green can that I was used to. Turned out that he bought CRC 2-26 by mistake. So, the moral of the story - make sure that you buy the right CRC product - CRC 3-36.

    Hope that info helps.

    Regards,

    Roy
    Manufacturer of the Finest Quality Off-Cuts.

  7. #6
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    Default

    For the amount you seem to use I wonder if it would be more economical to buy in the larger sizes. Provided you can locate a reseller. Although only the aerosol sprays upside down, if you need to spray the underside of a table etc.


    1 Gallon plastic bottle




    Even comes in a 20L Drum.




    A link to some product data sheets.
    https://www.crcindustries.com/ei/content/news-3-36.aspx

    I'm not sure if this implies it is food safe?
    • NSF H2 Registered – for use in meat and poultry plants
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  8. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    For the amount you seem to use I wonder if it would be more economical to buy in the larger sizes.
    DSEL74,

    A little bit of 3-36 goes a long way. I'm using the pressure pack cans, and even though I bought three cans a few months back, I'm still using the last dregs from the first can. I think that you'd need to have a lot of machinery to justify buying the product in bulk - - - - OR, club together and go shares with some other people and buy a bulk container. It should be a lot cheaper in bulk, but if you're using some sort of hand sprayer to apply it, you'd probably end up using more of it than is really needed.

    Regards,

    Roy
    Manufacturer of the Finest Quality Off-Cuts.

  9. #8
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    Default

    FWIW the MSDS is worth a read.
    http://www.quickmedical.com/download...-3-36-msds.pdf
    It''s not that different to WD40 and other similar products which we tend to use rather liberally whereas we should be a bit more careful than we are with these sorts of products.
    If a whole workshop is being treated with these products then good ventilation should be used.

  10. #9
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    Default Further Update on Tests of CRC 3-36 for Corrosion Control

    Well in Southern Queensland we are at last nearing the end of what has been a very hot, very humid, and at times very wet Summer.

    People who have read previous instalments in this post will be aware that I had treated two pieces of mild steel with CRC 3-36 and at the beginning of Summer had placed outdoors on top of a fence post to see how they fared. Up until the middle of January, they were both still corrosion free, except for a rusty finger print mark in one corner of one test piece. When I looked out there this week, the test pieces were gone. All I can think of is that maybe they were blown off the post during the strong winds that accompanied the Cyclone in February. As the test pieces have been lost, about the best I can say about the results is that the CRC 3-36 did prevent noticeable corrosion from forming for at least two months. The finger print occurred in early December when a visitor (someone from this forum) wanted a look, so I showed them, and they picked one sample up to have a close look. As it turned out, his finger print added value to the test because it showed that even the tiniest smear of skill oil and sweat can initiate corrosion in the right environment.

    I managed to get through this summer with no significant corrosion forming on any of my machinery surfaces. Those surfaces received a cleaning with kero and fine wet & dry, and then re-coated with 3-36 about every two to three weeks. I didn't get any hand tool corrosion this summer.

    The next significant test will be during winter, as we get 'pea soup' fogs from about midnight to 9:00am on about 50% of winter mornings, and that near 100% humidity usually causes even more corrosion each winter.

    Some people have expressed concern regarding the health warnings on the Safety Data Sheet for CRC 3-36. I rang up CRC Australia and their advice was that the warnings mainly related to the use of bulk 3-36 in industrial situations where it is often sprayed by the gallon using a spray gun, with a whole heap of personal protective equipment.

    I only use the pressure pack cans. There is a solvent odour, but if you ensure that you have good ventilation, the odour clears in a few seconds. Plus, instead of spraying gallons of the stuff, a two or three second squirt from the pressure pack can, and then spread it out with a rag, and it is enough to treat a table saw table. A little bit goes a long way. After using it for 5 months now, I'm still on my second can of the stuff.

    Regards,

    Roy
    Manufacturer of the Finest Quality Off-Cuts.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieRoy View Post
    ......the test pieces were gone. All I can think of is that maybe they were blown off the post during the strong winds that accompanied the Cyclone in February.
    Roy, are you sure they just didn't rust away completely?

    Thanks for your posting on this - it will be of great benefit to a great many - particularly up your way.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    I think the magpies in Qld. are the XL variety
    TM

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    Default

    Thanks for the update Roy, it's good that you've followed up your original posts with further info. I need to do a major derusting session on my planer and pillar drill and this stuff sounds like it's the way to go.

  14. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TermiMonster View Post
    I think the magpies in Qld. are the XL variety
    TM
    I like all the suggestions regarding what happened to the missing test pieces. SWMBO reckoned that it was Aliens.

    But it turns out that there is a simple explanation. I live on nineteen acres. The seventeen acres outside of the house paddock are leased out to a neighbour who runs some of his Steers on the land. I spoke to him over the fence this morning, and in passing conversation, he mentioned that he'd done some repairs on my house paddock fence recently - fixing a few broken strands of wire that the steers had busted. So just in case - I asked him whether he'd seen the steel test sample sitting on top of the corner post.

    "Yea .... I saw that. Thought it was a bit a junk so I tossed it in the bin" --- said with a real slow country drawl. You should have heard him laugh when I told him some of the theories that forumites had come up with to explain the loss.

    So, it turns out that I don't have the XL sized Magpies that TermiMonster envisaged. Instead, I have XXXXL sized Magpies that loot a lot like a 70 year old Qld cow cockie.

    Roy
    Manufacturer of the Finest Quality Off-Cuts.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieRoy View Post
    ...But it turns out that there is a simple explanation.
    Bugger, there goes another good story out the window....
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    Thanks Roy,
    Nice article, great follow up & much food for thought. Much appreciate your time & effort to share this with us.
    Pedro


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