Have Sorby chisels deteriorated lately?

[Tiger]

I've got a couple of 1/2 inch skew chisels, one is a high carbon version, the other is from McJings. I've never been satisfied with their edge-holding ability so today I bought the Robert Sorby version at the Wood show and ... It's no better than the others. So i thought i'll test them, honed them all to razor sharp, cut a piece of wood in 3 and made the same cuts. The high-carbon version became blunt first, then dead heat between the other 2. I last bought a Sorby 3 years ago, a spindle gouge and it has reasonable edge-holding qualities, has there been a deterioration or is this just a bad one?

[Mobyturns]

I've got a couple of 1/2 inch skew chisels, one is a high carbon version, the other is from McJings. I've never been satisfied with their edge-holding ability so today I bought the Robert Sorby version at the Wood show and ... It's no better than the others. So i thought i'll test them, honed them all to razor sharp, cut a piece of wood in 3 and made the same cuts. The high-carbon version became blunt first, then dead heat between the other 2. I last bought a Sorby 3 years ago, a spindle gouge and it has reasonable edge-holding qualities, has there been a deterioration or is this just a bad one?

Maybe you got a good piece of HSS from McJings???

[Tiger]

Maybe you got a good piece of HSS from McJings???

Is there such a thing? At any rate i only paid 1/3 of what i paid for the Sorby so didn't expect much from it. Expected a bit better from Sorby.

[artme]

I have a couple of Sorby gouges and they are good.

A couple of years back, however, I was having a discussion with a a lady turner ( whose name escapes me ) and she was of the opinion that Sorby gear was of uneven quality.

Perhaps that is the case????

[pommyphil]

I have a little McJing skew and it's a ripper, as good as P&N, just lucky maybe. I thought we paid double for Brand names for consistent quality ?

[powderpost]

Is there such a thing?

Surprisingly it can be, but it is still really a big gamble. The quality is like the weather, some times good, sometimes bad or worse even.

Jim

[issatree]

Hi All,
I'm a bit with pommyphil,
I wood have approx. 11 pieces of McJing HSS Tools, mainly what I've turned the Steel into. Mainly Flat Steel, 1 round.
My main Tools are by P&N, & personally, I think of most Tools Steel makers McJing or Chinese Steel come next.
One thing you have to say is they are below Half Price, of other Steel.

Helped ( I hope ) a Lady out today, who was or is having a few problems with her OVAL Skew. ended up buying a Mcjing's Flat 18 x 8mm. Skew, $33, P&N $61+.

I have ONE Sorby, but it is way down out of the way, & I'm blowed if I can keep or even get an edge on it.
Frightened the heck out of myself, as I got the Magnifier to have a closer look. Jimminy crickets, never want to see anything like that again.

All Right, maybe I have a crook piece of Sorby, but honestly I have never liked their Steel.
Maybe that is just me.

I really can't fault the Chinese Steel in any way, & it does really hold an edge, & I only use a 80 & 120G White Wheels to hand Sharpen all of my Tools.

[chuck1]

I have only got one old sorby bowl gouge, it seems to hold an edge and cut ok! But it's not my go to bowl gouge, it's usually my Big P & N.

[Oldgreybeard]

Surprisingly it can be, but it is still really a big gamble. The quality is like the weather, some times good, sometimes bad or worse even.

Jim

Is there a way to shorten the odds? Short of taking a microscope along to the store and examining the cutting edge, is it really "pay your money and take your chances"?

Unfortunately, no-one has said that they have received a full refund if the tool turned out to be 'crap' steel that is unsuited for the intended purpose. But under Australian commercial law, we should be given a full refund if the tool is not as advertised or suitable for the intended purpose. But I guess the problem is two fold (at least):

1. I am not aware of an legally binding standard for wood turning tools; as in minimum hardness level or qualites such as "edge holding" ability.

2. Even if there were such standards, how do your prove your case? Is the problem a manufacturing problem or is it operator error? Did the operator over heat the tool when sharpening and destroy the temper? Was it used on a 'timber' for which it was not intended - does every manfacturer have to specify for example that this tool is not guaranteed if used on Australian Mallee root or other specified species?

I am afraid that trying to establish standards is not going to work because even if they were established, how do you prove that you never over heated the tool when sharpening or you never used it on a species for which is was not intended. I see no point in wasting more money of legal fees trying to regain money wasted on an unsuitable purchase worth only a hundred or so dollars.

Having said that, surely manufactures and retailers must accept responsibility if they sell a lemon. Is it too much to ask that they (manufacters) prove its suitability; sharpen it and prove that it holds an edge or refund the cost. I think it would only happen a couple of times before that line was removed from the selves. My experience with a number of Australian retailers of wood working equipment is that they will "turn over backwards" to help you if you have a legitimate problem and in all fairness too them, they presumably have the same problems as we do in judging the quality of any single gouge or piece of equipment.

That leaves the "on-line" bargains and there it really is "you pay your money and take your chances" - that is the nature of the beast and you decided to puchase on line knowing and presumably accepting the risks.

I am not sure whether these thoughts help, but I am in the market for a new bowl gouge and was seriosly considering a Robert Sorby brand. After reading this thread, I an now confused and uncertain.

Bob

[Drillit]

IMHO, to compare McJ's (with due respects) and Sorby's- is like chalk and cheese. I say more. Drillit.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I really, really like the old carbon steel Sorbys. They take a good edge and hold it for quite some time.

But once they switched to HSS steel, I quickly became disillusioned. Haven't bought a "new" Sorby for a few years now, although I've used other people's and my opinion hasn't changed. Way too many trips to the grinder in comparison to other brands, esp. on harder timbers such as Cooktown Ironwood, or even the not so hard but abrasive ones, such as Tassie Blackwood.

Mind you, I suspect this is because their target group is primarily British/European users, whose woods tend to be more... 'turner friendly' than our general Aussie stuff.

They probably hold an edge for much longer when turning soft stuff such as English Oak.

[Tiger]

McJings is hit and miss but more miss in the last few years but the point of my thread was not to cast apersions on them, when you buy McJings it's cheaper and you lower your expectations accordingly. Sorbys are a fair bit more expensive and so expectations are higher. They have HSS imprinted on them, the spark coming off them indicates they are HSS, you should not have to go back to the grinder every few minutes as Skew suggests, either they're economising with their heat treatment or it's the grade of steel, i don't care which one but i won't be buying them anymore. So that leaves us with which HSS tools to buy, i'll be up to my 4th 1/2 inch skew by then.

[Blarney]

http://ern.reeders.net.au/blog/?page_id=211

[Paul39]

When I bought my first bowl gouge the store had Crown & Sorby. I'm not sure why I bought Crown. Possibly Sorby was more $ and I thought "Sheffield M2 HSS is Sheffield M2 HSS".

I have 4 bowl gouges, a 5/8 in. Crown, bought new, a used 5/8 in. Thompson, a 5/8 in. reputed Sheffield HSS no name, and a used 1/2 in. Penn State Industries Chinese.

All are sharpened on a 120 grit alox white wheel using a Oneway grinding jig.

I have slightly different grinds on them, as an experiment I once used all of them in turn on a hard tough (for the USA) bowl blank. They all cut about the same for about the same length of time.

I have Henry Taylor, Craftsman - Sears & Roebuck, and Chinese junk skews. The Chinese is from a set of 8 for $20.

The HT lasts the longest with the Craftsman close behind, the Chinese about half as long, to be expected for carbon steel. When freshly sharpened all cut equally.

The HT has a nice big long handle, Craftsman smaller, Chinese pitiful.

I have HT, Craftsman, Penn State Industries, and a 3/8 in. thick X 2 1/2 in. wide X 12 in. long slab of HSS from a planer, for scrapers. All stay sharp about the same. My favorite is the big slab because of the weight. One day I may weld a tang on it and put on a handle. I got 4 planer blades at auction for $15.

PSI Scraper: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LX130.html
PSI Bowl Gouge: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LX220.html

I am quite pleased with the two PSI items above, especially as I paid $35 for the two, barely used.

Something similar might be found in AU under another brand name.

Except for one chuck and the Crown bowl gouge, everything I use for turning has been pre owned. It has taken 7 years to accumulate.

[Cliff Rogers]

Sorby HSS has changed in the last 20 years I reckon.

My favourite scraper is made from a Sorby 25mm skew that I picked up about 16 years ago for $10 on a junk table at a tool shop that had taken over another business.

I didn't need another skew but I did need a scraper that I could modify into a long edge curve, it is a beauty.