Thanks Thanks:  0
Needs Pictures Needs Pictures:  0
Picture(s) thanks Picture(s) thanks:  0
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3

    Default New hand planes - are the more expensive ones really that much better

    Hi

    I'm just a beginner and looking to build up some basic tools and I'm looking at hand planes but I'm trying to understand the price differential between hand planes. I want to do furniture making.

    For example, from Carbatech, hand planes start at ~$70 (Groz) then go to ~$190 for Stanley and then higher again for Veritas (which I assume would be wasted on me).

    I really hate buying junk that doesn't work like it should. This is especially important for a novice like me who will attribute the poor results to my lack of skills rather than realising that the junk tool has contributed to the poor results.

    I'd like to know if the cheaper ones are worth getting and if the dearer ones are really that much better?

    I'd be happy to buy the more expensive ones if they're worth it and are nicer to use. I'd look it as a long term purchase and it would probably end up cheaper in the long run since I wouldn't be wanting to upgrade later on. (Also a better brand / quality plane will likely have resale value if I ever wanted to).


    Thanks in advance

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,501

    Default

    Everything you need to know and more is probably covered in this thread here:
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/expensive-hand-tools-188761

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,810

    Default

    Hi Trent

    Read the link above. Lots of appropriate opinions there.

    The short answer to your question is that the Groz and the modern Stanley (which is not the same as the Stanley Sweetheart, a more expensive plane) you refer to are both junk and to be avoided. The fact that the Stanley costs more than the Groz does not equate to better quality.

    Separate metal planes into two categories for beginners: either get a vintage Stanley (or similar), ideally from before WW2 (and the next question will be, "how do I know when one is that old?") - as long as it is not rusty and needing restoration, or buy a modern plane from Lee Valley (Veritas), Lie-Nielson, Clifton, or one of the Chinese-made clones of these. All of the latter group are essentially ready-to-go from the box and any tuning is done for you. The Groz and its ilk are very poorly made and need enormous attention to bring them up to speed. A good vintage Stanley has potential coming out of its ears - all you have to learn to do is tap into this.

    There are advantages with the more expensive planes, but they are not necessary to make furniture. They may, however, be more pleasant to use. I always recommend starting with a Stanley - work them out and you will better understand what a handplane is capable of, and later you can determine whether you want something with more refinement.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Westleigh, Sydney
    Age
    77
    Posts
    9,542

    Default

    Derek has nailed it. I have two old Stanleys and a Veritas that I use daily. The Veritas was nice to use out of the box, but the old Stanleys, after tuning, are just as nice. I think Derek has put up a thread on tuning them.
    Visit my website
    Website
    Facebook

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Brisbane (western suburbs)
    Age
    77
    Posts
    12,094

    Default

    This question, or ones like it, come up so frequently I think we ought to have a "sticky" for FAQs and a selection of answers that provide a balanced set of replies.

    The usual responses always include advice like:

    1. '..price and quality are loosely coupled, but the law of diminishing returns means you can pay a LOT more for a little improvement..'
    2. '.. the better boutique planes work "out of the box"..'
    3. '...get as much quality as you can afford..'
    To which I like to add, "try & find yourself a mentor or two at a woodworking group, or some bloke down the road who knows how to drive a plane".

    If you know what a well-tuned plane feels like, & what it can do, you have a defined aiming point. Because when people say the expensive tools work 'out of the box' they are taking a bit of license - no expensive plane I've bought was honed to my satisfaction on arrival (Jim Davey advertises that his planes ARE honed by himself & ARE ready to go, so p'raps that's an exception). For sure, the Veritas planes I've bought would all have worked a lot better than the average cheapie, but they certainly weren't functioning at peak performance on arrival. A scraper plane in particular, needed quite a bit of attention, not only to the cutter, but it took a bit of fiddling to set up an optimum blade angle & tension for the wood I wanted to use it on. If I hadn't had a lot of experience with hand-held card scrapers, & known what they can do, I think it would have taken a very long time to get it functioning properly.....

    Buying old planes & tuning them up can save you a lot of $$s, if you have the right attitude, some basic hand skills and a slice of luck. But if you are the type who likes a challenge & are prepared to work at it, it's a great way to go, imo, because by tinkering you learn what makes these things tick, and that's an invaluable lesson. Whether you are into woodworking to enjoy the process or simply want the products, having tools in tip top condition is an advantage. They get the job done efficiently and they make the process so much more enjoyable.

    Cheers,

    Cheers,
    IW

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Langwarrin, Victoria, Australia
    Age
    55
    Posts
    677

    Default

    Here is something to consider.

    I recently purchased a couple of Stanleys and a Falcon (Aussie made around ww2 to Stanley designs I am told).

    Each was between $40 and $60.

    I then set about researching how to fettle, tinkered with various methods of sharpening, pulled them to bits, cleaned up and reassembled.

    They still need a little more work (still setting up my shed so things like bench grinders and wotnot are scattered all over).

    Anyway, my theory was, I am happy to tinker on a second hand plane without fear of buggering it up, and if I do, its cost me max $40 or $60, and I can always use the parts if I completely stuff it.

    It also means I have a wider range of planes for different functions ( bulk removal, smoothing, jointing, shooting). I also have multiple planes of the same size with different grinds (face work, edge work, shooting).

    Food for thought....
    Glenn Visca

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    inverloch
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Not long after I started woodworking (about 2 1/2 years ago) I did a one day course at The Guild of Fine Woodworking in Melbourne. It covered all aspects of sharpening plane blades and setting up an old plane to perform like a Leigh Nielsen. Don't know where you live but I am sure there would be a number of schools offering something like this and I think such a course is well worth the cost.

    Another option would be to look at the WoodRiver planes, they are good quality and fit somewhere between the Groz and the high end planes - BUT you still need to learn how to sharpen them properly.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    58
    Posts
    12,779

    Default

    Having mucked about a bit with old Stanley planes, I've arrived at the conclusion that the single most important factor is the quality of the blade (and your ability to put a decent edge on it). At the end of the day, the rest of the plane is just a jig to hold the blade at the right angle and extension and provide some secondary functions to control the cut. If it is within certain parameters, it will work. Some cheap planes are manufactured outside those parameters but I don't think you really need to spend hours and hours 'fettling' a half-decent plane to get it to work.

    For example I have a #4 and a #6. I spent hours on the smoother, lapping the sole, squaring the mouth and so on. The single biggest improvement I made to that plane was to replace the original Stanley blade with a thicker blade of better steel. The #6 I spent no time fettling at all, I just replaced the blade. Both planes can take translucent shavings as good as my Veritas low angle block plane does.

    Fettling etc makes them nicer to use, no question and it's a nice thing to do, restoring an old hand tool. But if you just want a user, clean it up a bit and address the blade. That's all that is needed.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Thanks everyone for taking the time to offer input.

    Plenty here to think about but will stay away from the junk as I suspected would be a decent idea

    Perhaps the best thing for me to do would be to try and buy a decent used plane and learn about how adjust and sharpen it properly.

    I'm going to need to know if what I'm looking at is in fact a used plane worth buying. Would there be a thread here that deals with this kind of thing?

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Albury Well Just Outside
    Posts
    13,315

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trentk View Post
    ....I'm going to need to know if what I'm looking at is in fact a used plane worth buying. Would there be a thread here that deals with this kind of thing?
    You can try doing a search on the forum. This is an interesting thread but it covers an incredible variety of tools. https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/monday-night-showntell-91413 So I would suggest reading when time permits.

Similar Threads

  1. Do we need expensive hand tools?
    By Ratbag in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWERED
    Replies: 122
    Last Post: 26th October 2014, 04:07 PM
  2. Why are infill planes so expensive
    By ClintO in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWERED
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 22nd May 2012, 11:48 AM
  3. Hand planes
    By Gezawa in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWERED
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 22nd February 2009, 12:04 PM
  4. Thank you for the hand planes
    By Suresh in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWERED
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 14th September 2004, 01:36 PM
  5. Hand planes
    By John Saxton in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWERED
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 29th July 2004, 10:00 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •