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  1. #1
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    Default Festool Products

    Just an FYI -
    For anyone who is in the market for any Festool products, I would suggest making purchases prior to April.

    Allegedly there will be no discounts or specials thereafter and all products will be sold at full RRP without exception following an ACCC submission.

    Google will provide further info

    I was told by a tool shop owner

    Perhaps already common knowledge, I don't know just thought I'd share.

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Interesting but apparently the ACCC has granted authorisation for a minimum set retail price for Festool
    I note the ACCC will be monitoring pricing to see what happens

    It doesn't mean that prices will go up but does mean that in all likelihood there will be no discounting below a set minimum

    Here's a link to the press release
    Link
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  4. #3
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    Agreed, the ACCC paper doesn't expressly state full retail but, allegedly, according to said shop owner, that's the case, full RRP as found on Festool website. In most cases that several hundred above actual purchase or deal prices.
    What can be read from the ACCC paper is that whatever the case, there won't be any sales for below set minimum retail price from any stores. Kinda like Apple......

  5. #4
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    I've bought several festool items over the past few years, and have always got better pricing than advertised. I'll be interested to see what the fixed RRP will be. If it is the same as the current advertised prices, I imagine they'll have a difficult time maintaining sales rates. I don't accept the notion that the retailers have to provide higher levels of after sales service.

    ajw

  6. #5
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    It should be kept clear that this is not an RRP ie recommended retail price
    it is a minimum retail price and is set by the importer/wholesaler

    I'm sure there are some retailers very happy with this as they will no longer be subject to competition on price just on service.
    ... and we all know what the level of service is from some retailers.

    I can't see any public benefit in this arrangement but apparently the ACCC was convinced that there was or was likely to be.
    but then I'm old school and couldn't see any reason to change the RPM provisions
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  7. #6
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    Default

    Be nice to hear what Anthony at Ideal Tools has to say from his perspective.

  8. #7
    I_wanna_Shed's Avatar
    I_wanna_Shed is offline Now I've got a 6x7m shed! I need a new name...
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    Default

    Fantastic and refreshing to see the ACCC finally focused on the real hard-hitting issues in this country. Here I was, thinking that they were toothless following their inactions over fuel prices, the big 2's grocery store dealings with suppliers, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc and etc! Thankfully they are focused on Festool, which obviously impacts the vast number of consumers...

  9. #8
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    Of course, another option would be for Festool to allow retailers to price the tools as they see fit, with the option to provide 'the full Festool experience' as an add on service, kind of like an extended warranty or product insurance.

    Buy the tool and you get the tool and the standard Australian law warranty, buy the add-on service and you get the (insert whatever are the benefits that Festool claims as justification, be that product training nights, replacement tools while yours is in the shop, the Festool e-newsletter sent to you with only Festool branded electrons, a 15% discounted "I heart Festool" sticker for your VW Amarok or whatever).

    That way the consumer can decide which level of service is appropriate to them, without being locked into things they may not want or use.

    Of course, it could just be sales snobbery: "If you can't afford our tools at full retail, you don't deserve to buy them!"

    I couldn't see if the ACCC had agreed on a set of performance metrics for the agreement. I wonder how they will assess the performance the consumer's point of view!

    I have to say that I harbour a hope that Festool sales take a nosedive as price competition is eliminated and that they have to do a few years of deep discounting to build back market share!

  10. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LGS View Post
    Be nice to hear what Anthony at Ideal Tools has to say from his perspective.
    Hi LGS.

    Here's what I know and my perspective... The past few years has seen a large amount of free riding. Free riding is where a dealer spend considerable effort with a customer to understand a product and reach a buying decision, but the customer is tempted to purchase from somewhere else because of cheap prices. Consistent and substantial free riding has had a detrimental effect on dealers selling or supporting Festool products. Therefore dealers overall providing less support and availability of products for consumers. The second significant scenario, is an increased tendency for customers to buy products with minimal support by the dealer or on price alone, and not getting the best product outcome. I have seen this more and more frequently lately. Overall there has been a decreasing level of dealer viability and positive customer outcomes. All the above reasons are for what I know the significant reasons why the ACCC supported the application to accept minimum retail prices constraints.

    From my perspective I can say, that over the past couple of years I have been busier than ever, but sell substantially less. This imbalance and the underlying causes disappoints me as I know I have less time and resources available to support customers as I would like to and as they wish to be. Maybe the ACCC decision will help restore some balance and result in better outcomes for the majority.

  11. #10
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    Default

    I thought there were premium sellers & regular sellers. The premium big stores had better prices to start with.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  12. #11
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    I think that the only reason to have minimum retail prices is because Festool is supplying the dealers at different price points. So now festool will ask the ACCC for regulation because it refuses to engage in a bit of self-regulation and set one wholesale price for all of australia. The cost to the dealer is in theory, and mostly true, the minimum retail price. This seems so incredibly simple to me that I may have misssd something along the way, please feel free to enlighten me

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_wanna_Shed View Post
    Fantastic and refreshing to see the ACCC finally focused on the real hard-hitting issues in this country. Here I was, thinking that they were toothless following their inactions over fuel prices, the big 2's grocery store dealings with suppliers, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc and etc! Thankfully they are focused on Festool, which obviously impacts the vast number of consumers...
    I think this is a bit unfair

    The ACCC had to look at the Festool application - there are time constraints built into the legislation after the application is made. These are formal processes. And in this example festool had been subject to court action by the ACCC for this specific type of conduct, ie stopping retailers from discounting.

    It is true that the ACCC has had little action in the petrol pricing area. But then that ACCC has no specific powers regarding petrol (despite a couple of governments suggesting otherwise). The ACCC does have a role regarding price fixing and has taken cases regarding petrol price fixing in the past. These cases are very hard to win as evidence is difficult to obtain. And don't point at petrol price boards being all the same, that's only evidence of the price being the same, it is not evidence of collusion.
    There is an action pending regarding the sharing of pricing information
    press release

    I believe that Coles was taken to court for their dealings with suppliers
    press release

    The ACCC is doing other work in this area

    Most of the ACCC work is difficult and especially for court work evidence is needed. If people won't give the evidence of the conduct then the ACCC can't run cases. An example is the alleged bad practices of the major supermarkets. It is rare for the affected party to want to give evidence. They probably don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. People often whinge about something happening but when asked to give evidence don't or even refute the whinge they made.
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  14. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nt900 View Post
    Hi LGS.

    Here's what I know and my perspective... The past few years has seen a large amount of free riding. Free riding is where a dealer spend considerable effort with a customer to understand a product and reach a buying decision, but the customer is tempted to purchase from somewhere else because of cheap prices. Consistent and substantial free riding has had a detrimental effect on dealers selling or supporting Festool products. Therefore dealers overall providing less support and availability of products for consumers. The second significant scenario, is an increased tendency for customers to buy products with minimal support by the dealer or on price alone, and not getting the best product outcome. I have seen this more and more frequently lately. Overall there has been a decreasing level of dealer viability and positive customer outcomes. All the above reasons are for what I know the significant reasons why the ACCC supported the application to accept minimum retail prices constraints.

    From my perspective I can say, that over the past couple of years I have been busier than ever, but sell substantially less. This imbalance and the underlying causes disappoints me as I know I have less time and resources available to support customers as I would like to and as they wish to be. Maybe the ACCC decision will help restore some balance and result in better outcomes for the majority.
    Totally agree with you on this, I spend a lot of time on the phone and email advising people of the best tool, lathe or chuck for what they are trying to do and then get told so and so has it cheaper can you match the price, That so and so has offered no advice and does not know the product 20 years of experience can give.
    Jim Carroll
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  15. #14
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    Jim and Anthony,

    This is exactly what I thought you would say. Information, guidance and taking ownership of a client's needs are the bread and butter of successful businesses. Yet as you say, the purchaser who does not realise the benefit of using that experience ultimately will come off second best.
    I worked in supply of Capital Equipment to Scientific and Medical Institutions for 6 years odd. Price of items ranged from $120K to $500k. The song was the same. Customers would use our Scientific expertise pre sale, then purchase from the opposition, who, it was widely accepted, gave SFA support and always buckled on price.

    It's a mind set. Lets use the supplier's knowledge, but screw for lower dollars as well. Even the offer of add ons to the value of the sale (training advance knowledge of products they may want which are in the pipeline), nothing, n.o.t.h.i.n.g will alter the mind set. Which is a shame, because we all lose in the end. Look and see for yourself.

    I find that I take notice of how a salesman approaches me in a buying situation. I will buy from the guy who knows his product and is prepared to tell me warts and all information even if the price is higher than elsewhere

    LGS

  16. #15
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    Retail Price Maintenance is the *most* toxic and *most* cancerous form of anti-competition in a consumer capitalist system you can imagine.

    We studied this at Uni from a legal and economic rationale.

    It ALWAYS favours the big suppliers, it ALWAYS favours the big dealers, it ALWAYS costs consumers more and it ALWAYS reduces competition and incentive.

    There is a VERY good reason it was baked right into the core to the TPA from minute-1. The founders recognised from 19thC American industrialist practices just how corrosive it is.

    You will note the leading sentences: https://www.accc.gov.au/media-releas...ol-power-tools "This is the first ever application for authorisation to set minimum retail prices".....

    WHY. Ask yourself, of all the industries, of all the products, over the span of time, WHY is this the first?

    Small businesses think at first that this is a nirvana. WRONG. They will very soon find themselves cut out, paying more, slower deliveries, fewer items available, supply chain issues and then the worst-of-the-worst "dealership holdbacks". If you have a mate who in car sales, talk to them about how toxic this is.

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