inside corners- stick

[meadow street]

in the past I've started a three way weld, like pictured, in the corner and welded outwards.

should I indeed be wrapping the corner with a continuous weld (at least on the horizontal corners anyway).

ive been trying but get into a pretty bad push angle as I come into the corner, as well as a change in direction.......slag in the corner syndrome!

stick welding 6013 mostly.

is it worth persuing the wrapped corner?

[Michael G]

Stopping and starting are potential sources of discontinuities in welds (whether that be slag inclusions or poor fusion etc) so any time you can eliminate them it is worth considering.

Michael

[Ticky]

You can start from the inside corner, but when you strike your arc, pull the rod back and let it pre heat befor you actually start to weld.

You can start from the out side and as you get to the inside just turn your whole wrist over to change the angle as you weld out.

Changing to a 6012 might alleviate some of your issues. A 6012 Is essentially the same as a 6013 but with a more viscos flux.

Steve

[Karl Robbers]

You can start from the inside corner, but when you strike your arc, pull the rod back and let it pre heat befor you actually start to weld.

You can start from the out side and as you get to the inside just turn your whole wrist over to change the angle as you weld out.

Changing to a 6012 might alleviate some of your issues. A 6012 Is essentially the same as a 6013 but with a more viscos flux.

Steve

I definitely would not advise starting in the corner for anything critical as there are just too many things that can co wrong and all of them are very hard to fix in a corner.
As in the above quote, you shouldn't really need to reach a push angle, the steepest you should be is 90 degrees. This joint is very doable and all that's needed is practice.
It doesn't hurt to up your amperage a little to help control slag in the corner.
Not all 6013's are created equal, a Satincraft will perform very differently to a Weldcraft, an Austarc 13S or a Kobe RB26.
Some need more amperage than others.

[meadow street]

I feel suitably determined now : ) thanks for the info guys

[Ticky]

I definitely would not advise starting in the corner for anything critical as there are just too many things that can co wrong and all of them are very hard to fix in a corner.

The time may well come when you will need to do a Vertical Up in that position and you will have no choice but to start in the corner, so knowing how to do it instead of being scared of it may be of some advantage.

It's true that different makes of rods have slightly different characteristics, but do you want 5 boxes of 6013's to find your favourite, or would it be better perhaps to have a variety of sizes & classes. 13's are good, they will handle most positions, but 12"s are an all position rod.

If I was doing it in a down hand position, I would probably start on the left hand side & roll my wrist to quickly change the angle of the rod as I come into the corner, & finish on the right hand side, but there are so many variables to say which way to do, or not do this, & one of them might be what the drawing calls for, or what affect the heat will have on the job. Maybe it would need to be back stepped or if it was Cast, it may need to be peened, and the list could grow to be enormous. If it was a High Carbon steel, then I'd prolly go for a 16, or maybe as Karl clearly thinks my advise to you was of poor quality, he could suggest what he would use to weld Manganese to Cast Steel. No cheating now mate, you can look on the internet and tell us you knew all along, but I don't have to, which is why I wouldn't hesitate to start from the inside corner if that's what I chose to do.

[Karl Robbers]

The time may well come when you will need to do a Vertical Up in that position and you will have no choice but to start in the corner, so knowing how to do it instead of being scared of it may be of some advantage.

It's true that different makes of rods have slightly different characteristics, but do you want 5 boxes of 6013's to find your favourite, or would it be better perhaps to have a variety of sizes & classes. 13's are good, they will handle most positions, but 12"s are an all position rod.

If I was doing it in a down hand position, I would probably start on the left hand side & roll my wrist to quickly change the angle of the rod as I come into the corner, & finish on the right hand side, but there are so many variables to say which way to do, or not do this, & one of them might be what the drawing calls for, or what affect the heat will have on the job. Maybe it would need to be back stepped or if it was Cast, it may need to be peened, and the list could grow to be enormous. If it was a High Carbon steel, then I'd prolly go for a 16, or maybe as Karl clearly thinks my advise to you was of poor quality, he could suggest what he would use to weld Manganese to Cast Steel. No cheating now mate, you can look on the internet and tell us you knew all along, but I don't have to, which is why I wouldn't hesitate to start from the inside corner if that's what I chose to do.

Whoa, take a couple of steps back and calm down a bit.
I did not say your advice was poor quality at all - in fact I agreed with you on your technique of rolling your wrist to change direction thus alleviating the push angle that meadow was having trouble with.
Starting and stopping in corners is one of the less advisable practices due to the difficulty of back grinding necessary to meet coded welds and it requires a restart in an area that is typically less forgiving than a restart in a straight section of a weld. There will always be exceptions for individual circumstances, but the majority of welders will aim to place restarts in sections that they can most easily access and when welding tanks etc, stops and starts in corners are heavily frowned upon for obvious reasons. Fluff a restart and you'll be trying to gouge out a weld with a die grinder.
I totally agree that 6013's are not the be all and end all of electrodes, but that is the classification that Meadow is using primarily and I therefore felt it pertinent to mention the fact that some 6013's produce a far more troublesome slag to control in such situations.
As to your request for me to suggest a consumable to weld Manganese Steel to Cast Steel, you are a bit short on detail. Casting is only a method of forming the component and bears little relevance to the weld consumable until the grade of the steel used in the casting, which could range from Mild Steel through wear resisting grades and on to Stainless Steel is known.

[Ticky]

Mate, I dont want to get into a p!ssing contest with you or anyone else.

I took offence to the tone of your response to my post & responded likewise.

I didn't recommend starting in the corner, I only said it can be done & we both know that it can.

[WelderMick]

Obviously wrapping the corner in one motion is preferable, but failing that, I'd favour starting in the corner - easier to make sure arm/wrist is exactly how you want it and therefore less chance of slag inclusions. Getting a burr into a corner is no trouble at all if needed. When I say start in the 'corner' I mean arc up just out and backtrack to the corner.
So apart from the risk of muffing a restart/tie-in, is there actually a structural/metallurgical/stress reason that you wouldn't start in the corner?
I'm a fan of the humble Gemini 12's and would be wary of the KB-26's because of the slag issue as they really lay down some slag.
Cheers
- Mick

[Michael G]

I think provided you get the two welds to fuse together properly then a weld is a weld and structurally fine.
The problem is that to get that 100% fusion you really need to get the existing weld clean & slag free. Doing that in a corner adds a degree of difficulty which could be avoided most times. Why handicap yourself unnecessarily, especially if doing qualified work?

Michael