Veritas vs Lie Nielsen vs HNT Gordon Spokeshaves

[Luke Maddux]

A pair of nice spokeshaves is next on my list. Definitely going with one of the major players on this.

I'd like to hear anyone's opinion who has used two or more of these manufacturer's spokeshaves. The Veritas and HNT Gordon are both similar prices. I like the HNT aesthetic, but I've had some phenomenal experiences with Lee Valley/Veritas' tools in the past. That being said, the small number of Lie Nielsen tools that I have are the best in my shop. I have yet to have a single complaint about anything they make. BUT their spokeshaves are an extra 50 bucks over the Veritas. I don't mind paying 50 bucks if it's worth it. So can anyone comment on whether or not it is?

Thanks in advance,
Luke

[IanW]

Luke, the only two types of spokeshave I have used extensively are the old Stanley 150 types and the 'standard' Veritas (both flat & round-bottomed). I can say the Veritas is an advance on the Stanleys, the thicker blade and better machining make for a more solid little tool. The close mouth can give a better surface than the Stanleys, which are wide open in their stock-standard form, and the solidity all but eliminates blade chatter. But having said that, I bought a thicker replacement blade for the old Stanly flat-bottomed spokeshave, and it not only closes the mouth up a bit, it makes it much more solid, & markedly reduced the tendency to chatter - made a huge difference.

A lot of folks complained about the Veritas handles. They are quite dinky, so if you have large hands, they could be awkward (I've not handled the LN, but from the pics they don't look much different!). LV must've had a lot of complaints, at first, because they offered kits of the brass fittings so you could make your own handles. I hated the handles, when I first got mine, and bought some fittings to make my own, but by the time I got time to make the 'better' handles, I'd gotten used to the originals, & the urgency went out of that project. The bits are still stored, somewhere, waiting for the round tuit, which may never happen....

Spokeshaves aren't every day users in my shed, so I don't consider myself highly experienced with them, & certainly not a connoisseur. I've never used them as fine finishing tools, all I demand of them is they they do a reasonable, chatter-free job on the curvy surfaces they are brought out for. These days, a set of hand-cut rasps and scrapers have taken over much of what I would have used spokeshaves for in the past. I have to say, that had I discovered how well the thick blades work in the 150s, I would probably have been happy to stick with them for the rest of my life, and not bothered 'upgrading'....

Just one view.
Cheers,

[thumbsucker]

I am a heavy spokeshave user - I Love them - in that I use them everyday in my workshop. I have owned the flat, round & concave Veritas spokeshave and currently own the Lie-Nielsen Boggs flat, round & concave spokeshave.

I feel that the Lie-nielsen is the superior tool to the Veritas, the Lie-nielsen has more mass in the hand thanks to the bronze body even if the scale weight is almost the same. The bronze is also a benefit when working green wood as it does not react with greenwood like iron does. The Lie-nielsen is more balanced front to back in that it wants to sit on the cutting edge instead of rolling backwards due the adjustment mechanism making it top heavy.

The Lie-nielsen is bedded at 40º instead of 45º this is a good thing because spokeshave often cut across end grain not only with the grain.

The one thing that irritated me as it does others is that knurled knob on the Veritas is so small that is is uncomfortable to use. The Lie-nielsen has two man size lever cap knobs.

The Lie-nielsen has no mechanical adjuster this is an advantage, because I can adjust the blade single handedly - it is also much quicker to gently tap (against the workbench or shave horse) of the back of the blade to move it forward or to gently tap the handles to retract the blade then to wind the two nuts with one hand as you hold the spokeshave body in your other hand. However it takes practice to use the Lie-nielsen - the Veritas mechanical adjuster would be better if you sporadically use spokeshaves or if your skill is lacking.

The mouth on the Lie-nielsen is much tighter then the Veritas, Veritas provides two plastic shims that sit on the bed to tighten up their mouth. This is because the Lie-nielsen Boggs spokeshave is a purely fine finishing tool, meant to be used after the bulk stock removal has been done by a drawknife. The Veritas without the shims can be used to hog off more material and then shimmed up for fine work. But the Veritas is never going to be as a good as a drawknife for bulk shaping.

A problem with the Lie-nielsen is that its mouth is very very fine so it will tend to clog faster. However a wipe with your hand back to front across the mouth clears the blade of shavings. Some people file the mouth open but this is counter productive, if you want a ruff hogger use a cheap drawknife or an old Stanley.

Another thing to note is that the Lie-nielsen Boggs curved has a very shallow radius, great for gentle graceful transitions but if you want to turn tight radius get the Lie-nielsen Small Bronze spokeshave or the Veritas. Or gently file the Boggs curved sole to a tighter radius

As for handles - they are irrelevant for the most part - since you should not hold a spokeshave by it handles "do not hold the shave as you would hold bicycle handlebars, rather, keep your hands toward the center and let your fingers trace over the area you are shaving.", your thumbs and index fingers should pinch the body front to back. The handle should only make the lightest contact with the outside edge of your palm providing a sense of horizontal.




Here is a good article by Schwarz.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/c...chairTool2.asp

Enjoy

[ian]

I've got the flat and curved sole Veritas shaves, the flat bottomed Lie Nielsen shave and the Veritas low angle.

I most frequently reach for the Lie Nielsen as it feels the best in my hands and in use and as Thumbsucker said it's easy to adjust.

However, they all have their use with the Veritas being preferred for wider stock.

[Bushmiller]

It would be useful to hear from anybody who has used one of The HNT Gordon spokeshaves. I have his very tiny shave, which seems to be excellent, but I am not a frequent user (of spokeshaves ) .

Interestingly, the way I came to try it was at the Brissy woodworking show. Terry Gordon offered my wife a try of the cute little spokeshave. Well, she got the hang of it straight away and we had to wrestle the tool back from her as Terry was going to run out of demonstration timber .

Regards
Paul

[kevjed]

I'm a fan of the HNT Gordon shaves, both the older design and the new. All of them that you are looking at are great. You just need to get your hands on them all at once and give them a go. For me, the HNT stuff rocks. That being said I do have the Veritas range as well the the HNT's. The Boggs shaves are on the sometime list.

[rob streeper]

I have the Lie Nielsen Boggs style and brass body shaves, several old Stanley's and the large Veritas but my favorite shaves are made by Turgeon tools - great ergonomics and workmanship at least equal to LN.

[derekcohen]

I have the Gordon spokeshaves as well as the LN Boggs. Plus a couple of LV (but not the ones of interest).

I wrote a review of the Gordon shaves here several years ago: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...OKESHAVES.html

To put things into perspective, the reason I have the LN and not the LV shaves is because I prefer spokeshaves without adjusters. The adjusters seem to raise the centre of gravity, which detracts from the "feel". Well, that is how I thought about it several years ago, conclusions reached using Stanley spokeshaves, such as the #151. I have not used the LV spokeshaves with adjusters. (I have the LA LV and Preston LV spokeshaves).

For interlocked wood the Gordons have no peer when it comes to a tearout free surface. This is not about grain direction, which one must still read, but on highly figured timbers. Working on the Fiddleback Jarrah Wegner Chair I built recently is an example in point. For pure control and lightness, the Boggs reign. They are just delightful to hold and use .... but they are more of a finishing spokeshave as they sport tight mouths. My go to for roughing out is a Stanley #51 (wide mouth) and a Stanley #53 (adjustable mouth).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bushmiller]

Derek

That review was excellent.

Have you had the opportunity to try the new range of HNTs as Terry has superceded the older, bulky, shaves? I wondered how they compared.

Regards
Paul

[Luke Maddux]

This thread is long dead, but I thought I would just provide some finalizing followup to the initial line of questioning.

I trialed the three brands in various venues over the course of a few months.

The LV/Veritas were good. Certainly the most versatile. I didn't really like the whole "shimming" scheme and I decided I prefer to have a blade without an adjuster. I also already have a Stanley 63 and 64 for hogging off material and was more after a finishing shave, so I ultimately ruled them out.

The Boggs shaves were great, same as every Lie Nielsen tool I've ever had the pleasure of holding. They cut well both with and against the grain. They are, as all accounts will attest, a finishing shave.

But in the end... I had to go with those Gordons. I just love the streamlined, minimalist design, Australian timber construction, 02 steel, and absolutely fantastic, smooth finish both with and against the grain. These just feel right in my hand. They were the ones. I ordered the flat and curved larger ones and the small curved, all with Buloke handles.

And you know, I would be lying if I said that my interaction with Terry Gordon didn't play a considerable role in my decision. He is an absolutely great guy and I really enjoyed meeting him and dealing with him throughout the entire process of negotiating the details of the tools. When I was ready to pay, I called to pay by credit card and the man himself answered the phone. I said this the other day to someone... call me old fashioned, but when I call a tool company and the guy whose name is stamped on every tool answers the phone, he just earned himself a lifetime customer.

My AU$0.02

Cheers,
Luke

[Luke Maddux]

Ok, last bump and I promise I'm putting this to rest!

Photo of the shaves.

image1 (9).jpg

The two in the back are my Stanley #63 and #64 which I use for stock removal. The newly acquired beauties are in the front.

[Bushmiller]

luke

Very, very nice.

Regards
paul

[IanW]

So HNT is into She-oak handles too, or did you ask specifically for that for your handles? By all accounts, they work as well as they look, so you should enjoy them....
Cheers,

[Luke Maddux]

So HNT is into She-oak handles too, or did you ask specifically for that for your handles? By all accounts, they work as well as they look, so you should enjoy them....
Cheers,

I told him I wanted a set of three with matching handles. He gave me a few options including Gidgee, Mulga, False Sandalwood, White Malee Burl, Buloke, and Ebony. Ebony, being unnastrayan, was out, and I wanted something other than Gidgee as I've got a few items made of it already. The Malee Burl was tempting but I ultimately went with Buloke. I thought its durability and nice grain would be a good choice. Couldn't be happier!

[Luke Maddux]

I told him I wanted a set of three with matching handles. He gave me a few options including Gidgee, Mulga, False Sandalwood, White Malee Burl, Buloke, and Ebony. Ebony, being unnastrayan, was out, and I wanted something other than Gidgee as I've got a few items made of it already. The Malee Burl was tempting but I ultimately went with Buloke. I thought its durability and nice grain would be a good choice. Couldn't be happier!

He made the set to order. It wasn't a stock item, in case I was vague on that.