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  1. #1
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    Default Rusty Old Iron n steel

    Last year I bought a bottle 1ltr of Rust converter at the Toowoomba show
    Rust Solutions 1 lt concentrate organic rust converter I finally got around to using it in the last 24hrs.






    These are some of the tools requiring Rust removal prior soaking.




    Below is the Rust Converter mix just after mixing and placing the tools inside.

    I had also place in a Vernier height gauge which only had light surface rust but some bad pitting.


    Below an additional saw added which had just slight surface rust. Note the colour change of the fluid this is approx 20 mins after mixing and placing the first items in.


    Below the following morning almost 24 hours later for the worst of the tools.
    There is notable flakes of rust on the bottom.

    The tools after 24hrs taken out of the fluid rinsed and wiped down.

    Attachment 340965

    The tools were all sprayed with WD40 and a hard scourer used or light kitchen scourer or steel wool to remove the remaining scum.
    I left handles on as according to the salesman in Toowoomba he'd found the solution doesn't effect the wood. however I would normally remove them as moisture will remain between the blades and timber causing rust over time. These few saws were not valuable a such to worry about it.

    The photos below show the difference and results I have done a more comprehensive post on Rusty Old Tools
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by wheelinround; 26th February 2015 at 07:56 AM. Reason: correct spelling

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  3. #2
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    Looks good Ray. I wonder what the acid is (see PH on MSDS)? As it is safe to ingest, I am guessing citric acid is the main ingredient. Have you compared similar items in this product and citric acid solution? I must get some Evapo-Rust to try, though that is really expensive http://www.evapo-rust.com.au/Shop.html. I note that the PH of Evapo-Rust is almost neutral, very slightly acidic, do not know the active ingredient, described as "chelator". Also non-toxic.

    Cheers
    Peter

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    I notice you said "converter" whereas the product says it is a "remover".
    Conversion requires the rust to be converted back to metal (very difficult) or to another material, like Phosphoric acid converts rust to Iron Phosphate
    Removal just dissolves away the rust and depending on what it is could remove metal

    Being Ph 3.5-4 it is mildly acidic which suggests it is an acid based remover.
    The MSDS says it contains organic ingredients which could be vinegar/lactic/citric/formic acids and or chelating compounds.
    I suspect it contains some of the the later since it says heavier rusted items can be left inn it for 12 hours.
    If it was primarily a chelating based remover (liket the Evaoprust is) it should not corrode the metal even if it was exposed for a long time.
    It would be worth doing a test for a week or so with a small piece of bare metal, like unglavanized nails, to see if it dissolves any metal in the long term.
    To speed up the test you could try the test without dilution.

    BTW I would always recommend removing the handles as depending on the type of wood there is a chance that the wood might turn black.
    This would be worth doing a test with as well.

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    It looks a very similar result to citric acid from the solution to the results. You might want to try it side by side just to see what it looks like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavansabove View Post
    Looks good Ray. I wonder what the acid is (see PH on MSDS)? As it is safe to ingest, I am guessing citric acid is the main ingredient. Have you compared similar items in this product and citric acid solution? I must get some Evapo-Rust to try, though that is really expensive http://www.evapo-rust.com.au/Shop.html. I note that the PH of Evapo-Rust is almost neutral, very slightly acidic, do not know the active ingredient, described as "chelator". Also non-toxic.

    Cheers
    Peter
    Peter this wasn't cheap $50. one batch so far has done what is above plus a No4 plane which didn't go well seems it was coated in a wax or grease which didn't allow it to do the job. So today turps and WD40 had it cleaned up.

    I do believe citric acid is it there is no odour as far as I can tell. This is the first of their products I have used. I have some stuff Christos gave me some time ago much more caustic and with the way I work not good if spills or no gloves. Normally all I have used in the past is either Diesel mixed with break fluid to remove the paint, this was when doing work on motors etc. WD40 or one of those spray cans of Rust remover from auto shops.
    When doing rust repairs to autos I used some sort of rust converter can't recall what brush on leave for a day or two everything turned black.

    The fact of enviro safe and the not so toxic drew me to this me being me an the hands have trouble wearing gloves and handling stuff as you know drop something into caustic and well it burns like buggery in areas I hold dear.


    I spotted that Supercheap has a range of products as I guess the big green and blue shed will have as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I notice you said "converter" whereas the product says it is a "remover".
    Conversion requires the rust to be converted back to metal (very difficult) or to another material, like Phosphoric acid converts rust to Iron Phosphate
    Removal just dissolves away the rust and depending on what it is could remove metal

    Being Ph 3.5-4 it is mildly acidic which suggests it is an acid based remover.
    The MSDS says it contains organic ingredients which could be vinegar/lactic/citric/formic acids and or chelating compounds.
    I suspect it contains some of the the later since it says heavier rusted items can be left inn it for 12 hours.
    If it was primarily a chelating based remover (liket the Evaoprust is) it should not corrode the metal even if it was exposed for a long time.
    It would be worth doing a test for a week or so with a small piece of bare metal, like unglavanized nails, to see if it dissolves any metal in the long term.
    To speed up the test you could try the test without dilution.

    BTW I would always recommend removing the handles as depending on the type of wood there is a chance that the wood might turn black.
    This would be worth doing a test with as well.
    Yes I did Bob it is a Rust remover not Converter ( I know some people who have tried to convert rust to gold LOL panel beaters come to mind)

    It does dissolve as te amount of sediment in the bottom of the container showed, the grimmy almost mud like left on some tools soon washed off in the water.

    As for acidic I did get some on my hands when removing the tools from the container even tho I was piking them up using a magnet pick up no burns noticed to hands. Splash or drip marks have left no stains on cloths rags or cement or brick surfaces.

    I/we have transferred the fluid drained through a cloth into a sealed plastic bucket for now Bob. I do have more tools I want to do which will fit into that, I will try your suggestion of 24hrs+ on a pair of tin snips Gilbo type in the coming weeks. Or even my school made scribe post surface rust only but something easier to mike up.

    Yes agree although at this time all wood handles have no signs of blackening in fact the opposite they look clean to. Bob the blacking on the handles in the fluid has all but gone now out as I sat them in the sun to help dry timber out today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelinround View Post
    .........I have some stuff Christos gave me some time ago much more caustic .......

    The stuff that I gave you was citric acid, from which I originally purchased from TTTG(The Traditional Tool Group).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christos View Post
    The stuff that I gave you was citric acid, from which I originally purchased from TTTG(The Traditional Tool Group).
    You wrote on container Caustic Soda

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    Bob found the ideal thing to drop in the soup for a week. I have a 110 block plane which is cracked and rusty will strip it to bare min and allow soup to do its worst for 7 days.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelinround View Post
    You wrote on container Caustic Soda

    Either I did or you did.


    I am not saying anything further until I check the hand writing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelinround View Post
    Bob found the ideal thing to drop in the soup for a week. I have a 110 block plane which is cracked and rusty will strip it to bare min and allow soup to do its worst for 7 days.
    Ray, from the look of that plane I reckon 30 minutes in citric will do the trick. I tested rusty tent pegs in citric, and when the rust is gone, acid starts on the steel - that is how files/rasps are sharpened. Check... scrub... check... scrub... etc regularly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavansabove View Post
    Ray, from the look of that plane I reckon 30 minutes in citric will do the trick. I tested rusty tent pegs in citric, and when the rust is gone, acid starts on the steel - that is how files/rasps are sharpened. Check... scrub... check... scrub... etc regularly
    Thanks Peter now I know what Christos gave me is Citric not Caustic I'll give it a go I have a number of files need refreshing.

    What amount of Citric do I use?? I have about a take away container full.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelinround View Post
    Thanks Peter now I know what Christos gave me is Citric not Caustic I'll give it a go I have a number of files need refreshing.

    What amount of Citric do I use?? I have about a take away container full.
    Ray, check out http://www.tttg.org.au/php/ArticleView.php?id=28, saves me repeating it all.

    Cheers
    Peter

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