Shapton pro series or ohishi waterstones?

[section1]

Thanks for that great tip other than waterstones Tassy Blackwood which I'm working with right now also leaves your hands black but that's easy to wash off but the gunk from the stones isn't but transfer onto your work easily.

[Christos]

...Tassy Blackwood which I'm working with right now also leaves your hands black but that's easy to wash off but the gunk from the stones isn't but transfer onto your work easily.

Just on a side note;

Sometimes my hands become black from one activity or another. I ended up getting industrial soap in the garage and with one squirt and a rinse of water I am ready to continue on another activity. The other option was to use dish washing soap with hard scrubbing, only downfall was that I had to touch the dish washing container. Not the best situation to be in.

[section1]

lol I've tried the dishwashing soap and it doesn't do much at all but Ian suggested white spirits and it worked instantly.

[hiroller]

Sorry about that fence I gave IanW all the credit for that great tip and speakingg about tips check out my winning tip in this issue of popular woodworking mag where I demonstrate so to speak how successfully bore with a forstner bit using a handbrace without exerting much pressure and to a desired depth that would be exact. Tht tip earned me US$250 gift voucher with Lee Valley.

Congratulations, nice tip.
I like the drawing you did too!

[section1]

Thanks bro but I didn't draw it they did

[derekcohen]

I've only ever used Norton but I would like to try something else a little less messy. Has anyone tried either Shapton pro or ohishi? Basically which one is better and why. I shapren several times in a day, I want to spend less time on the stone and definitely don't the black stains on my fingers which are a pain to wash off they always leave some unsightly mark on my work.

The best 1000 stone I've used is the Shapton Pro. Cuts fast and stays flat longer than others.

I am not mad about the rest of the Shaptons in comparison to the Sigma I have: 6000 and 13000. These are preferable.

The Spyderco stones are excellent. I have the Medium and Ultra Fine. However I think that these better suit a more advanced sharpener as they are very hard and offer little feedback - also best used freehand (only 2" wide).

An important feature of honing is preparation. Microbevels work fastest - how will you do this, a secondary bevel or honing on a hollow grind?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[section1]

I'm not much for secondary bevels I've never seen the point in them in fact when I used to have a primary bevel set at 25° and the secondary bevel set at 35° it was a comlete pain trying to re establish the primary bevel. So I got rid of it.

[Robson Valley]

Reading the thread with interest. I've been using waterstones for maybe 10 years.
What is all this outcry about waterstones being "messy?" They are not. Wet, yes.
I'd appreciate an explanation of the muck and mess. I don't see that.

[derekcohen]

I'm not much for secondary bevels I've never seen the point in them in fact when I used to have a primary bevel set at 25° and the secondary bevel set at 35° it was a comlete pain trying to re establish the primary bevel. So I got rid of it.

In my book a micro bevel is not the same as a secondary bevel. I understand many use the terms interchangeably.

A micro bevel is just a tiny bevel. A secondary bevel is a bevel created at a higher angle to the primary bevel. Consequently, one may have a micro bevel that is also a secondary bevel (a "micro secondary bevel), and this is what many use a honing guide to form ...



If you hollow grind a blade (as I prefer) and then hone directly on top of this hollow (i.e. maintaining the angle of the primary bevel) - which is more typical of one free hand sharpening a blade - then you will also create a micro bevel, but one that is coplanar with the primary bevel/hollow ...



Both methods have their efficiencies - the aim is simply to minimise the amount of steel to be honed. The less the steel area, the quicker the sharpening process. This is the reason I make a big deal out of grinding a good hollow - it speeds up honing. It also lasts a long time and does not require to be redone for several honings.

The slowest form of honing is where one works the full face of a flat primary bevel since the area of steel is maximised. I do not include Japanese blades here since they are a lamination of thin hard steel with the majority of the thickness being soft cast iron. I often allow them anyway, using a Tormek to avoid increasing heat.

Lastly, one needs to match blade steel to the honing media. There is no point in using oil stones with HSS if you hone a full face. (On the other hand you may just get away with it if you are working with a micro micro bevel).

SO, Section 1 .. where do you fit into this scheme of things? Are you honing a full face? Using a hollow? ...?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[section1]

Ok I don't use a hollow grind even though once upon a time I did, my secondary bevel is what I hone only yes it is slowly getting larger but still no where covering the whole face. So I guess my answer is no I'm not honing the entire face but I suppose if I had the patience to hone a full face to from 25 to 33° and then hone a secondary bevel to 35° I suppose I would. I don't sharpen freehand I use the MKII it gives me consistant repeatable angle. BTW I did figure out how to get a 33° on the MKII. I have tried many different angles and have found 35° to work for me for atleast 90% of my projects especially on end grain but for Blackwood if your a hand tooler due to it's unbelievable amount of reversing grain kerosene and a lit matchstick works the best. As soon as I run out of this timber I will never buy it again, the machinists can have it.

[derekcohen]

... but for Blackwood if your a hand tooler due to it's unbelievable amount of reversing grain kerosene and a lit matchstick works the best. As soon as I run out of this timber I will never buy it again, the machinists can have it.

What type of plane are you using?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[section1]

LN no.7 standard frog I will purchase a high angle frog but not really sure about this particular board though even my cabinet scraper tore it which surprised me. Unfortunately for me I planed the entire board, last time I ripped and crosscut everything to length and kept the tearout to a minimum. I won't be doing that again, I also ran into reverse grain with Fijian Rosewood but hadno issues with the scraper in fact this is the first time my scraper made such a large tearout.

Anyway I closed the mouth and resharpened the blade and it did help somewhat but not a great deal.

[derekcohen]

S1, before you go off and purchase a high angle frog, have you tried setting the chipbreaker to reduce tearout?

If you are unfamiliar with this method ....

1. prepare the chipbreaker by ensuring the underside is absolutely flat. I run mine on a very fine diamond stone.

These are Veritas chip breakers being checked (texta and diamond stone). The first needs more work ...



... and the second is perfect ...



2. place the chipbreaker in your honing guide and hone the leading edge to 45 degrees. This needs to be about 1/8" wide.

3. set the chipbreaker about 0.4-0.5mm from the edge of the blade.



Open the mouth slightly more than you are used to doing (pull the frog back). This is to prevent blockage from the chipbreaker, which is now likely to be closing up the month.

Now try planing the board. If done correctly, you will no longer create tearout.

Below is a Stanley Bed Rock #604 (45 degree frog) planing into the grain of highly interlocked Fiddleback Marri - no tearout ...



.. and a Veritas Custom #4 with a 42 degree frog doing the same ...



My last article on this was here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...omPlanes1.html

I have also a couple of LN, both 50 degree frogs - and both were 55 degree frogs .. until I learned to use the chipbreaker with them. So try it. Costs nothing. And if you are determined to get a high angle frog for the #7, I have 55 degree for sale.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[section1]

Well I must say I am amazed and I will try this out, having read your article I did not know that the manufacturers didn't lap the underside of their chipbreakers. I will check my LN ones and if I find that to be true with theirs it will be sorely disappointing as these planes are very expensive and I shouldn't even have to think about doing this.

I will keep you updated this is very exciting if this works as well for me as it has for you this will open up a whole range of species that are not hand tool friendly.

[section1]

Eagereness to start has led to a couple of complications, firstly the MKII doesn't have a standard angle of 45° I chose the high angle of 45 and quickly realised when I was done honing close to 1/16 that I was taking out the flat back. As you know on the back the flat leading edge is raised and if proceed any further I will end up taking it out. I'm not sure though that I have chosen the settings on the honing guide. I've tried it out as is and it seems to be working initially the mouth was clogging up so I opened a little but still the same then I pulled the blade back to probably .7mm and it's working much better now. Still rough though yes the tearout has minimised but still there is, I went back to pine and insteaad of nice long thin shavings I got torn fibres so I think that this high angle I have chosen on the MKII may be the issue. I did check the angle prior to touching it and it was some where around the 23° mark but in your article you wrote they are about 30°

I can safely say I stuffed it and am not sure how to fix it.