Shapton pro series or ohishi waterstones?

[section1]

I've only ever used Norton but I would like to try something else a little less messy. Has anyone tried either Shapton pro or ohishi? Basically which one is better and why. I shapren several times in a day, I want to spend less time on the stone and definitely don't the black stains on my fingers which are a pain to wash off they always leave some unsightly mark on my work.

[ian]

if your looking for minimal mess, then a ceramic stone might be the go for you
I've used one of these super fine stones dry for honing for a number of years
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=81

spyderco also make fine and medium stones

[section1]

Not having tried them I'm reluctant to pay $89, but thanks for the link anyway.

[FenceFurniture]

.....definitely don't the black stains on my fingers which are a pain to wash off they always leave some unsightly mark on my work.

You may find that using a little White Spirits on a rag will get it off easily. Pretty much impossible to avoid with any system.

[section1]

a nice tip thanks fencefurniture

[IanW]

I think you've asked an unanswerable question Sect.1! Stones & sharpening are the most 'personal (& the mot disputed) aspect of all woodworking procedures.... What works for me won't suit you because we probably differ on what constitutes 'sharp', but also the types of steels we sharpen most. If I had nothing but older-style tool steels, I'd still be happily sharpening with my well-aged & well-used Arkansas oil stones. I can't see that any stone will reduce the number of times you sharpen to a huge extent (true, a finely polished edge holds better than a coarse one), but water stones cut faster (on average) & reduce the time it takes to get an edge. However, since the most time with a plane, for e.g., is taken up dismantling, re-assembling & setting the freshly-sharpened blade, the actual honing time isn't all that significant.

Nearly 40 years after I first tried water stones (& rejected them!) I recently bought a 1,000 x 8,000 Ohishi. Those first water stones were not a success, partly because they were so soft, but mainly, perhaps, because I had been a long-time oil stone user, and my expectations & techniques were inappropriate. I'm pretty pleased with the Ohishi; still softer than any oil stone, & requires constant attention, but nowhere near as rapid-wearing as those earlier examples, and I can live with it because of the good job it does. It is the only stone that puts a decent edge on my PMV11 and A2 blades without risking the RSI that the Arkansas stones were bringing on! If you have not used water stones much to date (or not at all), I would advise going for ones that have a slow wear rate, & Shaptons should win there, but as I've not uised any myself, I can't give you a comparison. Usually, the faster stones cut, the quicker they wear, so it's always going to be a trade-off to some extent. The other way to go, that you haven't mentioned, is diamond plates, if you want relatively fast cutting without stone wear. They have their lovers & haters, but since you indicated cost is important to you, p'raps they are not something you wish to even consider.

BTW, I like the black stuff - it means lots of fine swarf is coming off (& rapidly oxidising). It does get on hands a bit, I suppose, but I'm careful to wipe the blades clean before they touch any wood. I don't care too much abbout stained hands any more - one of the benefits of retirement!

Cheers,

[section1]

As always a pleasure to hear from you my old advisor, so far you haven't steered me wrong and I have applied all your recommendations with great success I might add so thank you.

I've used oil stone years ago and hated them so all I've ever used were waterstones, I first tried the King and sold them a week later, then Norton and haven't looked back since. I think I will give the shaptons a go I kind of have a gut feeling they will be ok. I heard the 1000 grit ohishi isn't very good so why take a chance to find out probably the same dissapointing results.

[IanW]

....... I heard the 1000 grit ohishi isn't very good so why take a chance to find out probably the same dissapointing results....

That's interesting - haven't come across any negative comments myself. Do you know what the specific complaints are? I don't use the 1,000 grit side much on my stone, because I tend to leave it on the 8,000 side, and use a fine diamond plate for restoring the edge before honing on the Ohishi. However, I have used it a bit & seemed ok to me - it cuts at almost the same rate as the diamond plate, and certainly a lot faster than an equivalent grit oilstone. Wear-wise, it seems pretty good, too, though as I said, I really haven't worked it hard enough to really test it out.

Been reading about, & thinking about, Shaptons myself, and sometimes think perhaps I should've gone that route rather than the Ohishi. But for now, it does what I ask of it, & I'm at least temporarily content, but I could get a bee in my bonnet & some day indulge myself. So many of us seem to end up with a collection of sharpening stones over a lifetime - I've got a drawer-full of the darn things, some bought new, some were given to me, including a lovely hard white Arkansas, which I used as my finishing stone until I got the Ohishi. Some day I'll stumble on the perfect sharpening stone(s) & chuck all the rest out.

Cheers,

[ian]

if your looking for minimal mess, then a ceramic stone might be the go for you
I've used one of these super fine stones dry for honing for a number of years
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=81

spyderco also make fine and medium stones

Hi section1

perhaps I should have added that I have a set of Shapon Pro series stones (320 through to 8000) which I use to flatten backs and establish edges at the beginning or end of a day -- but to re-establish "sharp" and while avoiding "mess" during the day I hone dry on the Spyderco

[section1]

All I heard was that the 1000 doesn't work all too well but the higher grits work very well I don't understand why but that's all I know whether it's true or not I really don't know.
If Shapton's work for me then I will stick to it while I can still get it, the funny thing with suppliers they keep switching brands everytime something goes their way or they become ridiculously expensive.

[ian]

Section1

what types of steel are you trying to sharpen?

how do you sharpen?

Shapton stones aren't going to be significantly less messy than a normal water stone -- both need to be kept wet.
The Shapton's advantage (compared to a normal water stone) is it doesn't need soaking, it just needs to be kept wet.
and to keep your work clean and dry you'll need to walk to a sharpening station

For sharpening during the day, perhaps you could use a hardwood or MDF strop sitting on your bench beside your work.

[section1]

A2

I do have a dedicated station with very large thick real marble stone I was lucky enough to get for free.

IanW sugested to use white spirits to get muck off my fingers which I will do because usually that's the crap that always gets on my work.

I always use a strop after I sharpen and between before paring but using the strop in before proper sharpening doesn't hold an edge for too long just enough to get you by.

[IanW]

....The Shapton's advantage (compared to a normal water stone) is it doesn't need soaking, it just needs to be kept wet...

Actually, Ian, the Ohishi stone doesn't need soaking, either. In fact I have noticed a few water stone makers who now say no need to soak, so that claim's no longer unique to Shapton (if it ever was). While it's true my Ohishi doesn't need the sort of soaking the stones I tried long ago did, it still needs a good dousing or three to get it going if it hasn't been used for 24 hrs or so. I don't find them any messier than oil stones, to be truthful, and a cotton rag copes adequately with either. I'm pretty fastidious about drying off anything that's been on a water stone, and also like to wipe off the stone thoroughly before the swarf dries on it.

...IanW sugested to use white spirits to get muck off my fingers which I will do because usually that's the crap that always gets on my work...

'Twasn't me wot suggested that, 'ol buddy, I think that was FF. I tend to use metho as my first choice because I have a spray bottle of it handy (for French polishing). If that doesn't do the trick, I will go for the hard stuff (or just put up with stained hands for a few days )

Cheers,

[section1]

Sorry about that fence I gave IanW all the credit for that great tip and speakingg about tips check out my winning tip in this issue of popular woodworking mag where I demonstrate so to speak how successfully bore with a forstner bit using a handbrace without exerting much pressure and to a desired depth that would be exact. Tht tip earned me US$250 gift voucher with Lee Valley.

[issatree]

Hi to all you Sharpeners,
I have Turned a lot of Red Gum & Jarrah over the years, & wood get absolutely Black Hands, most distressing if you had to go to a Dance that night.

Can't remember who or when, but I was told to get a Lemon, roll it around, cut it across, apply the straight Lemon to your Hands, & rub vigorously & virtually just wash off with water.

Heard of House Stumpers had the same problem all those years ago, & wood have to wear White Gloves to the Dances.

I think this wood work with your black hands, well, I hope it does.