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Thread: Help Identifying an Old Hand Saw
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18th March 2015, 11:10 AM #1Novice
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Help Identifying an Old Hand Saw
Hi,
I purchased an old 7tpi cross cut saw last week with a Warranted Superior badge that I am interested in identifying. There was no etching visible, but after a bit of a clean I identified part of an etch that I have never seen before. I can't read the writing, but there is an image of a man in a peak (wizard style) hat, in what looks to be a coopered bucket. Has anyone see an etching like this? I've included some photos of the saw below. The etching is quite faint, and I don't want to sand away the etch so I haven't gone any further. The handle may not be the original as the slots cut in it are much deeper than the saw blade.
Thanks,
Justin.
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19th March 2015, 12:20 AM #2
Hi Justin,
There are two main types of warranted superior medallions, the American eagle type, and the British coat of arms, I can't see yours clearly enough to tell which it is, but that will tell us if we are looking for a US maker or a British maker.
Ray
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19th March 2015, 12:47 AM #3
My interpretation ...
The medallion has a small eagle ... indicating USA ... but they don't match the handle.
The dip at the front of the saw says there was originally a nib, or is at least is an older date - say 1900ish.
I think maybe the saw bolts are original and the handle has been replaced.
The earliest saw bolts would be split-nut types.
These are either the later, thick-shaft type or an earlier, thin-shafted type.
The graphic, almost comic sort of etch design matches other US lower-line saws (not low quality by today's standards)
It'd be interesting to see the handle off ... there might be original holes plus new ones.
Cheers,
Paul
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19th March 2015, 05:56 AM #4
The etch looks like a guy stomping grapes in a wooden barrel. I've never seen an etch like that. The handle looks to be original because there is no outline in the rust that would indicate a different handle. The screw heads are smaller than the counterbores on the backside, so they might not be original. The radiusing on the edges on the handle are not as rounded as the older handles were. This leads me to put it in the late 1930,s or younger, however most saw makers of that time period stopped doing the nib. Without a makers name it isn't possible to determine who manufactured it. The shape of the handle is quite common, much like thousands of other Warranted Superior saws.
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19th March 2015, 09:08 AM #5Novice
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Thanks for the additional information. I've include some closeups of the badge and bolts. It does look like an eagle. I've also got a closeup photo with the handle off. There is only one set of holes and the rust matches this handle. I thought it may not be original as it didn't look to fit that well, but perhaps it was a generic low cost handle. The closeup of the handle shows that the blade slot extends well past where the blade comes to. The other photo is where there is a number 7 stamped on the blade, indicating 7tpi I presume.
Now that you mention it, it does look like someone squashing grapes in a barrel
Thanks,
Justin.
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19th March 2015, 09:11 AM #6Novice
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Thought I'd also show a couple of other saws that I picked up. The Disston panel saw was purchased at the same time from the same person. The Warranted Superior tenon saw was from a different seller. Its teeth are not in the best shape, but its got a really nice handle.
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19th March 2015, 08:58 PM #7
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20th March 2015, 08:52 AM #8
Yairs, a little bit of remedial dentistry needed, Jus...
Nice 'London pattern' handle, alright. There's a similar handle shown on Ray's site, on an Abraham Ashton saw, but the treatment of the top is different from yours. Never ceases to amaze me how may variations on a basic theme folks have come up with, over the years hand saws have been made!
Welcome to the arcane world of hand saws, looks like you are already 'hooked'..
Cheers,IW
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20th March 2015, 03:45 PM #9Novice
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I've attached a closeup of the badge and stamping on the back. The other photo shows that its missing the nuts from the two bolts (which is one of the reasons why it was $5), so I'll need to source some new ones. The handle does look very similar to the Abraham Ashton saw. Its a very comfortable handle so I'm keen to get it in working shape and put it to use.
I'm a recent convert to hand tool 'unplugged' work, but took a quick appreciation to nice saws
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20th March 2015, 11:07 PM #10
Although the mark is a bit hard to read, the "Advance" paschal lamb logo is the well known Taylor Brothers trademark, and I think the stamp is J Taylor & Son, Taylor Brothers were one of Sheffield's most prolific saw makers they operated from 1837 to 1971, and had dozens of names they traded under. That medallion is a ringer and doesn't belong to the blade, but going on the style I'd guess the handle probably does belong. Should be a nice saw with a bit of restoration.
I'd hazard a wild guess at a date of 1880 based on the style of the stamp. ( Referring here to BSSM page 577 )
Ray
PS.. Still no clue about the boy in the barrel, although I agree with Marv, it's likely to be treading grapes rather than coopering.
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21st March 2015, 04:19 AM #11
Interesting how different photos show things differently.
The screen-grab I got from the first post ...
bs x.JPG
I had started wondering if it might be "Naylor" ... assuming there was "& son" or "& co" at the end,
but of course the Advance logo clarifies that.
Just like to point out that this has the domed saw nuts ... but the very thin shaft like split-nut saws.
I didn't know the dating for those as opposed to the thicker, "newer" bolts that came after.
Cheers,
Paul
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21st March 2015, 12:50 PM #12
Hi Paul,
Those saw screws don't belong either, the way they appear rusted in the pictures they might even be iron bolts.. It's very likely the original saw had brass split nuts. But they could have been replaced 100 years ago
I'd put forward a wild theory based on pure speculation, but I think the owner had at some point grabbed the screws ( medallion included ) off an American saw, and re-used the screws to repair his British made Taylor Bros... Maybe he broke the original screws trying to undo them... DAMHIKT
Ray
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21st March 2015, 01:48 PM #13SENIOR MEMBER
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Hello Justin,
Hello Justin,
I may be able to help with your saw identification, as I have a saw the same as yours, that I picked up locally some time ago. It was in poor condition, but cleaned up ok.
It is a 26" straight back 8ppi cross cut hand saw, with a beech handle and decorative nib. The etch shows a rather smart impish looking fellow wearing a striped suit & pointed hat, standing in a coppered tub while using a hand saw to cut out the bottom. With a caption saying "you bet the bottoms out USA" as to why he is doing that,
I'm not sure.
Here in South Australia, apart from English saws, I've come across many examples from the big US makers e.g. Disston, Symonds, Akins. It could be an example of one of their secondary lines. Disston were set up in Sydney early last century, I think they imported saws components and assembled saws to avoid import taxes.
With the eagle in the medallion and the wording in the caption, my guess is that it is from a U.S. manufacturer between 1910 and 1930
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21st March 2015, 02:33 PM #14
Hi Macg,
Beautiful restoration looks like new.. ( and welcome to the forum! )
The handle shape is starting to look more like a Richardson Brothers...
It was fashionable in the late 19th early 20th century to have trademarks with puns and double meanings, I suspect this mark has a double meaning, but maybe lost in the mists of time.... still searching for "you bet the bottoms out"
One for Paul's lateral thinking abilities perhaps..
Ray
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22nd March 2015, 03:02 AM #15
Yep, my bad The eagle medallion on a british saw slipped my mind :/
I really just wanted to point to the diameter of the posts ... just like split-nuts ... vs the later thick-posted type.
Very nice saw, Macq.
Don't suppose it was a leprechaun having some issues with his stash on St Patrick's Day ...
Cheers,
Paul
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