Saw Handle with Borer

[Vann]

I wanted to rip a macrocarpa sleeper last week. I don't have a bandsaw, nor a table saw, and I like to try to do things by hand anyway. So I dug out my old rip saw (unknown brand, 5ppi). The sleeper is 8ft long and 3" thick and I was making hard work of it - the saw hasn't been sharpened since... well probably since I was an apprentice 40 years ago (it hasn't seen much use mind). So I looked around to see what I have amoung my recently acquired saws awaiting commissioning.

I picked out a nice thumbhole Disston (4 1/2ppi) and tried that for a change. When I say nice, it has a straight blade, not too much surface rust, all screws present and correct - but it has a lot of borer holes. They don't matter do they? I figured I'd fill them with putty/wax/whatever and I'd have a nice saw.

Thumb1.jpg
Well it does matter . The little blighters have eaten the guts out of the wood, and after a few minutes of cutting, the horn just broke away in my hand

Thumb2.jpg Thumb3.jpg

Anyone for a group tear session?

Cheers, Vann.

[orraloon]

Thats a pity as it is a nice saw. The blade is in good condition and will clean up nicely with minimal attention. Looks like you need a new handle. I made a new handle for a rip (not thumb hole however) by taking a photo copy and using that as a template to cut out the new handle. So after you wipe away the tears get working on a new handle.
Regards
John

[IanW]

Bummer! Don't you just hate those little wood-guzzling swine? I've seen old Beech riddled with borer, but didn't know they tackled other woods with the same gusto. Think I better put some pest strips in my toolbox!

I guess you have two options, Vann -1) try & find a handle (from a saw that is worn out or rusted beyond redemption), or 2) make a newie. Neither is likely to be easy. A thumb-hole handle in as good nick as your original (minus the grub holes!) is likely to cost as least as much as a complete saw, and be harder to find. But sourcing a suitable chunk of Apple wood so you can replicate the original as closely as possible will be almost as difficult! Any medium-brown, fine-grained wood could substitute at a pinch, I suppose, one it gets enough age on it, it's hard to tell.....

Cheers,

[pmcgee]

Is it suitable for repairing around the horn, or has the whole thing joined the Hollow Men ?

Cheers,
Paul

[Vann]

Is it suitable for repairing around the horn, or has the whole thing joined the Hollow Men ?

Although it's not too badly affected by large borer holes, the whole thing feels light, and is crumbly - like it has no guts (maybe the borer has set off rot?). A repair wouldn't last long.

I think my best bet is a replacement handle, using this one as a pattern (as suggested by orraloon). I've not attempted a new handle yet - and I think that would move it a long way down the to-do projects list - especially due to the added complexity of a thumbhole handle. But I'd like to give it a go. I find (in my very limited experience) that thumbhole handles feel skinny. When I do get around to making a replacement, I might make it 2mm thicker, just to see how that feels.

I have some dry apple branches, but nothing big enough. I guess I could join two bits??? Other options (in timber that I have) include peach (also too small), rimu, beech (not sure what variety) and purpleheart. And I could try a dummy run in good old pinus radiata.

I'm not sure I like the idea of a handle off another saw - though I may get desperate. I think I have a reasonable thumbhole handle on a bent blade (somewhere ).

Cheers, Vann.

[IanW]

Of the woods you listed, Vann, Beech (presuming you mean Nothofagus & not the northern hemisphere variety) would be the pick of the bunch, imo. Easy to work & would end up looking a bit like the original. I've just finished making a saw handle from some so-called 'tiger Myrtle' and it was pretty good to shape, but a bit of a pita to finish, it's one of those woods that shows every scratch from the previous grade of paper, so I had to work hard to get the surface I like...

Shaping a handle isn't very difficult, but a couple of appropriate tools like decent rasps can make life very much easier. Take care in altering thickness or width of the grip - it's amazing to me what a difference in feel a mm or two makes, you can go from a bit skinny to too fat very easily. If you don't like the current thumbhole shape, I'd suggest you start with a shallow groove, which should give it a 'fuller' feel, & sneak up on the fit that you like. Frankly, I find the thumbhole and the groove pretty useless, because I don't use my saws in a way that takes advantage of them. But they do look interesting...

The biggest challenge you'll face, I think, is the blade slot. Disstons of that era have a semi-circular end that fits into a deeply circular slot in the handle. I presume Mr. Disston cut them in a jig fitted with a dedicated circular saw of the right thickness & diameter. To copy that with hand tools, without cutting down through the top of the handle, will take a fair bit of sweat and a hand saw that can cut the rounded kerf. I've made myself a set of pull-saws with rounded ends (something like a stair saw in reverse) for cutting out the backs of handle slots, but I've not tackled anything as deep as those Disston handles with them. It could take some time!

The 'slack' way would be to make the handle in two halves & use a router to cut half the slot in each piece before glueing them back together....

Cheers,

[Heavansabove]

Option 1. A handle off another D8 thumbhole saw, holes will not line up of course

Option 2. Make your own handle. As the old handle is toast I suggest cutting the slot all the way through (after glueing the broken bit back on). This gives you a perfect template, well 2 templates. Now for the curved plate... I recently rehandled a Great Neck plastic handled saw with a pronounced curve to the plate at handle end - I cut the curve off = problem solved. This is a user?

Option 3. Ian's idea of a two part handle with routing. Or a three part handle - 2 sides and a piece of veneer in the middle the thickness of the saw plate. This is particularly good if you already have lots of thinner suitable wood. I have been thinking of experimenting with gluing up a handle blank with 2 or more bits of wood for an interesting(?) pattern. I will probably dowel the sections that will remain after shaping the handle. Perhaps you can use the fruitwood?

Cheers
Peter

[RayG]

Stewie, came up with a solution for cutting those curved slots, he was using a slitting saw mounted on a router table with a speed controller.. It's a lot of setup for just one handle, so that would mean you have to make a dozen or so.

As far as timber goes, I'd skip the purple heart ( too splitty ) pine.. no, walnut is good if you have any, that beech sounds like it might be ok.

Once you get into it, making a new handle isn't all that hard. The danger is that you'll get addicted to it.

Ray

[Heavansabove]

Stewie, came up with a solution for cutting those curved slots, he was using a slitting saw mounted on a router table with a speed controller.. It's a lot of setup for just one handle, so that would mean you have to make a dozen or so.

As far as timber goes, I'd skip the purple heart ( too splitty ) pine.. no, walnut is good if you have any, that beech sounds like it might be ok.

Once you get into it, making a new handle isn't all that hard. The danger is that you'll get addicted to it.

Ray

Gee, that is a big slitting saw - for a D8 thumbhole, about 8" diameter x .042" thick. That is impressive router control. Or can one creep up on the shape with a smaller saw?

Cheers
Peter

[RayG]

Gee, that is a big slitting saw - for a D8 thumbhole, about 8" diameter x .042" thick. That is impressive router control. Or can one creep up on the shape with a smaller saw?

Cheers
Peter

I see what you are thinking... no it doesn't need to be that big, just large enough to reach the depth, it doesn't need to match the diameter of the back of the blade. I think Stewies setup was 3 or 4 inches diameter?

Ray

[dai sensei]

Hit the handle all over with a hammer, if the borers have done their worst it will crumble, if not you could repair it with some casting/stabilisation. New handle would be better though.

Last week I found a 500x75 x 3m long oregon plank under my parent's home. Pulled it out being hopeful it would be ok only to find it riddled with borer and basically honeycombed balsa wood . It was from a single piece of wood too

[IanW]

I see what you are thinking... no it doesn't need to be that big....

Hmm, I think it does, Ray. The back of the slot is quite a bit deeper than a 3" diameter saw could reach! I think Peter's estimate of about 8" diameter is much closer to the mark. I use my (3" diameter) slitting saws occasionally, for slotting small handles & they can't reach deep enough to fully cut even those. They are also difficult things to cut wood with, having no set, so I find it easier to just saw the slot by hand, in most cases.

Cheers,

[code4pay]

What about one of those osculating multi tools wouldn't be perfectly round but can do a blind cut. You'd probably want to start the cut with something else. . Not sure how it would work with width etc just a thought.

[RayG]

Hmm, I think it does, Ray. The back of the slot is quite a bit deeper than a 3" diameter saw could reach! I think Peter's estimate of about 8" diameter is much closer to the mark. I use my (3" diameter) slitting saws occasionally, for slotting small handles & they can't reach deep enough to fully cut even those. They are also difficult things to cut wood with, having no set, so I find it easier to just saw the slot by hand, in most cases.

Cheers,

I'd still give it a go, here's a Disston thumbhole rip, the tricky bit is at the top of the handle, that's the bit that stops you from doing a straight cut.. and you only go deep enough to pick up just past the top screw, down lower you need to go deep enough to pick up past the medallion screw, the botton lambstongue isn't cut at all...

That slitting saw is a 4", with the standard arbor I use on the mill, I reckon I'd get deep enough to do the job nicely.

ThumbholeRip.JPG

For big rip saws the thumbhole is great, you get a good two handed grip and it works a treat...

Ray

[mark david]

If you get an epoxy resin such as West sytem and a small syringe and inject into as many holes as you can you may be able to repair it and give it a new lease of life.