New wooden double iron plane maker

[D.W.]

Hi DW. It looks to me as though the tapered irons Steve is using from LV are not hollow ground on the underside but flat milled. The cap iron Steve makes are also of an abnormally heavier gauge. The resulting effect would cause the iron to deform under tension, rather than give in to the iron as traditionally found.

Stewie;

http://blackdogswoodshop.blogspot.com.au/

I saw that picture and I can't really tell. If the irons are flat, but the cap flexes them, that's advantageous for bedding due to the bias. They all flex some under the tension of the sprung cap.

[DaveTTC]

If I can throw a question/s into the mix ...

1) can you use figured timber for a plane?

2) I know working it would be an issue, is this the only issue or is it less stable than its stright grained counterpart?

3) what is SG 1?

DaveTTC

Turning Wood Into Art

[Corneel]

Glad you liked the Ducati analogy Dave and yes it's free for everyone to use

SG 1 means a weight of 1 kg for 1 dm3 of wood. The same as water. Beech is a bit lighter at 0.6 to 0.7 which especially makes the larger planes easier to handle.

[Corneel]

Oops, double post.

[D.W.]

If I can throw a question/s into the mix ...

1) can you use figured timber for a plane?

2) I know working it would be an issue, is this the only issue or is it less stable than its stright grained counterpart?

3) what is SG 1?

DaveTTC

Turning Wood Into Art

Yes, you can use it. It can be a little less stable than straight grained timber sometimes (if you ever look at figured guitar necks, they're often laminated or have some sort of reinforcement in them. It may be that if you choose a perfectly quartersawn (pith sawn on center perfectly, too) piece of figured wood that you won't have that issue. Karl holtey made a batch of figured transitionals not that long ago that were very figured, but karl gets the very best wood I have ever seen, probably because he's willing to pay absolute top dollar for the best stuff and has built the relationships to find it regularly.

SG 1 means specific gravity = 1. Above it, and wood sinks. Most plane woods of the right density to make vintage style jack and longer planes have SG of about 0.7.

[Steve Voigt]

Hi DW. It looks to me as though the tapered irons Steve is using from LV are not hollow ground on the underside but flat milled. The cap iron Steve makes are also of an abnormally heavier gauge. The resulting effect would cause the iron to deform under tension, rather than give in to the iron as traditionally found.

Stewie;

http://blackdogswoodshop.blogspot.com.au/

I really wanted to stay out of this Stewie, but if you're going to make false statements about my planes, particularly on a subject (double irons) that you clearly do not know much about, I guess I have to respond.

The cap irons are made of 1/8" mild steel, cold-rolled. They are not "abnormally heavier gauge," rather they are squarely within the the range of typical cap irons ca. 1850-1920. Here is a Buck Brothers cap iron that is over a hundred years old. It is a uniform .130 across its length.

IMG_1412.JPG


Concerning your erroneous statement about deformation: I own dozens of vintage cap iron sets. Some of them are NIB, some were never assembled, and some have been sitting in a plane for 150 years. But in every single case, both the cutting iron and the cap iron flex when the screw is tightened. That's how it's supposed to work: the whole idea is that both the top of the cap and the underside of the cutter will be slightly concave, and so will bed firmly at top and bottom on both the bed and the abutments. That is an extremely basic fact about double irons; that you do not know it just demonstrates that you don't really know what you're talking about. If you're going to make authoritative-sounding statements about an item that I have spent years researching and developing, you might want to do a little research first.

While I'm here, I'd like to say a very hearty "Thank You !" to Kees, DW, Derek, and many others for the positive and encouraging comments. The support is really appreciated.

To the tiny minority who think it's April Fools day, or that no one will buy them, or that I should sell them at a price that would pay me a sub-minimum wage: Well, Taylor said it best.

[planemaker]

Hi Steve. We both share a passion for making traditional wooden hand planes. A rare thing in today's modern world. You come across as someone who feels he is an expert in this field of work. Derek and DW also portray themselves as experts in this field. As to your comments relating to my own lack of knowledge on traditional hand planes, I am not overly concerned with what you think.

All the very best with your business venture.

regards Stewie;

[RayG]

So, let me see if I understand this, what Stewie said was correct, the cutting iron does in fact flex, but that flex is required for the iron to bed at the top and bottom.

Apologies if I've misunderstood.

[Wongo]

Nice work , and Nice planes.
There must be area's in the world where the second hand market is non existent ?
Or is there something else going on ?
I just checked the date , it's not April 1st
Would someone actually buy a new Beech smoother for $385 US ?


RB

If he can make a plane using a pocket knife and a pair of tweezers then it is good for him. He is free to charge whatever he wants.

Personally I am not interested because AUD $385 should get me something like this

http://www.hntgordon.com.au/gidgee-b...-of-stock.html

[D.W.]

If he can make a plane using a pocket knife and a pair of tweezers then it is good for him. He is free to charge whatever he wants.

Personally I am not interested because AUD $385 should get me something like this

http://www.hntgordon.com.au/gidgee-b...-of-stock.html

I'm not sure what you'd consider to be better about that plane than an early 1800s style double iron plane.

(I have had one of those, by the way, they are less productive in actual use than a common pitch 1800s style plane with a double iron).

[D.W.]

So, let me see if I understand this, what Stewie said was correct, the cutting iron does in fact flex, but that flex is required for the iron to bed at the top and bottom.

Apologies if I've misunderstood.

That's correct. The flex exists in every single double iron made, from norris to stanley to butcher. In some of the older irons, it's coupled with a concave back. Regardless of how the back becomes concave, the concavity is a good thing because it biases the iron to bed well for cut and adjustment. There is a myth that I doubt many people here carry, that a perfectly flat bed and a perfectly flat iron is ideal. The large manufacturers, at least one of them, creates the same bias, but in the bed instead of the iron, so that the iron beds at the top and bottom and not in the middle. It guarantees the users a good working plane whereas an attempt at a perfect fit can create a high centering iron or a plane that becomes unruly (if wood) with seasonal movement.

[D.W.]

Hi Steve. We both share a passion for making traditional wooden hand planes. A rare thing in today's modern world. You come across as someone who feels he is an expert in this field of work. Derek and DW also portray themselves as experts in this field. As to your comments relating to my own lack of knowledge on traditional hand planes, I am not overly concerned with what you think.

All the very best with your business venture.

regards Stewie;

I will say that I know more about double iron planes than most, but that doesn't make me an expert. If anyone wants to give me the label, I'll take it, though!! Sort of like I'd take a winning lottery ticket.

I could easily prove to any ardent single iron plane user (who does more than smooth out planer marks) that a double iron plane is superior in every way, perhaps except in ease of construction of the iron and cap iron. I've done it a couple of times for "expert" locals here. But I don't have to be an expert to do that, the plane design is better, it does it for me.

[planemaker]

Hi Wongo. Excellent choice; from a world class "Australian Plane Maker; who understands the values of charging a fair price for his work.

Stewie;

[Wongo]

I'm not sure what you'd consider to be better about that plane than an early 1800s style double iron plane.

(I have had one of those, by the way, they are less productive in actual use than a common pitch 1800s style plane with a double iron).

I know they are different planes. I just wanted to show what you can get for $385.

They are that good are they? Maybe I should get a couple of them.

[planemaker]

That's correct. The flex exists in every single double iron made, from norris to stanley to butcher. In some of the older irons, it's coupled with a concave back. Regardless of how the back becomes concave, the concavity is a good thing because it biases the iron to bed well for cut and adjustment. There is a myth that I doubt many people here carry, that a perfectly flat bed and a perfectly flat iron is ideal. The large manufacturers, at least one of them, creates the same bias, but in the bed instead of the iron, so that the iron beds at the top and bottom and not in the middle. It guarantees the users a good working plane whereas an attempt at a perfect fit can create a high centering iron or a plane that becomes unruly (if wood) with seasonal movement.

Hi DW. That's a correct assessment.

regards Stewie;