Cheating on My Planes - or - The Hand Tool Guy's Dilemma

[Luke Maddux]

Sorry... Long post here.

I've been partially dressing boards by hand for a while now. I use the jack/jointer plane to get one side nice and flat, then I use my jointer plane to joint one edge 90deg to the flat face.

From there, I thickness using the cheapest thicknesser machine you can get from Carbatec, and then I move to my contractor's style (soon to be cabinet style) table saw. At that point the boards are dressed four sides. I then use saws and a shooting plane for length, and call that DAR.

For the most part that's been working for me, but the last two furniture projects have really changed my perspective on some stuff. Both of these projects were chests, and both were going to be made with Eucalypts, i.e. hard stuff. The first was a full sized tool chest and the second was a blanket chest, so kind of medium sized but still large enough to double as a bench.

With the first chest, it was for me, which is kind of unique. I'm usually making stuff for other people as a commission or gift, experimenting with styles and techniques, or just making something because I think it's cool. The second chest was for my girlfriend.

Anyway these projects both had a lot of boards. I had to prep about twenty large ones for the first chest and thirty smaller ones for the second chest. Being Eucalypts, they were both A: hard and B: pretty rough with regards to their defects (twisting, bowing, cupping, knots, etc.). With the first chest, by the time the panels were glued up and it came time to flatten them for joinery, I had lost interest and decided to put it off and work on other stuff. That was about four solid days of work. I was cool with putting this on the back burner because it was for me. Unfortunately, the boards leaned against the wall for a while and, during that time, warped to a point of non useability. When I got them out to work them again a couple of months later, it was hopeless.

With the second chest, something went wrong during the panel glue-up. I don't know if my square was screwed up slightly while jointing, my thickness planer has gotten out of whack, my table saw blade is misaligned, or my clamps are out of symmetry, but three of the four panels twisted and I didn't see it coming. By the time I got the worst panel flattened after a LOT of scrub plane time, I was looking at 10mm wall thicknesses. Maybe less by the time I got at them with the smoother. Ruined.

So there's two projects basically lost after, literally, days of work each. This is what brings me to the point of this post...

I am very seriously considering getting a high end combination machine. I know this is the hand tool forum, but that was deliberate. I'm curious to know how many people who are hand tool users "cheat" (I'm joking with that terminology) and prep their boards with machines. Are any of the "hand tool guys" actually doing all of their jointing (one face one edge) by hand for entire projects? Furthermore, is anyone dressing all six sides by hand on every project?

Does anyone feel that their hand tool skills have declined following acquisition and use of a jointer (machine)? I feel like I was sort of just reaching the point with the jointer and jack planes that I could determine which steps to take to flatten a board and then execute them accordingly. On the one hand I feel like these two planes will be far less used and my (still developing) skills with them will decline. But on the other hand, I feel like my joinery skills - which is my favorite part of furniture making - will improve drastically as I will be able to move to the point of using and developing those skills more quickly on a project by project basis.

To me, the fun part of woodworking is designing a piece, executing the project efficiently, taking my time with the joinery, and having something great to use and enjoy or for someone else to use and enjoy. If I could shorten the board prep stage from days to, literally, minutes, then I think I would spend more time in my shop enjoying myself.

Interested to hear thoughts on this topic.

Thanks in advance,
Luke

[planemaker]

Hi Luke. Flattening 1 face of the board prior to running it through the thicknesser I cant find a fault with. The only variable that would best explain what you experienced would be too high a moisture content in the timber you are working with. It may pay to invest in a moisture meter in the near future. The following attachment may be of some assistance to you. if you require more information on this subject you can research it on the internet.

http://www.getwoodworking.com/news/a...re-content/789

I personally would have chosen a much lighter timber for a blanket chest. Red Cedar; as an example.

Stewie;

[orraloon]

Luke,
No shame doing the grunt work by machine and especially most of the hard eucalypts. I dont mind a bit of handplane work on small projects or on kinder woods(part of the reason I made a pine bench top) but faced with a stack of hard eucalypt I would be looking to burn some electrons. When I have square milled stock I am happy to use hand tools for most of the rest. I dont think your hand skill will decline milling with machines. Mostly I will just grab a handplane for small jobs as I dont want to annoy the whole street by too much machine noise. You will still get some hand tool time in.
As for wood movement it can be very irksome and again the eucs are amongst the worst. Our climate does not help either. Planemake's link about
moisture content is worth remembering. I would have to admit that like most weekend wood butchers I have often not given as much attention as I should. Us hobby woodworkers are often swayed by the look of a timber over its suitability. I guess sticking to the traditional timbers for building particular things has a lot going for it. Using all that past experience in a way.
Regards
John

[derekcohen]

Hi Luke

I have a Hammer A3-31 with spiral head. I would be certifiable if it was not used to prepare the raw materials that make up the furniture I build. WA hardwoods are hard. The grunt work in ye olde days was probably done by apprentices. Consider the A3-31 as the Apprentice.

The fun in using handtools lies with joinery and finishing.

Incidentally, if you can only run to a jointer or a thicknesser, my argument is a jointer. It is possible to joint one side, then two edges, and glue them together. All one then as to do is run a mark around the panel and plane to that. Or, to joint one side of a single board, mark this, and plane to the mark. For me this is a better alternative to getting a thicknesser (which is the usual recommendation), and having to joint one face by handplane first, dealing with twists and cups. That is harder work.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Luke Maddux]

Hi Luke

I have a Hammer A3-31 with spiral head. I would be certifiable if it was not used to prepare the raw materials that make up the furniture I build. WA hardwoods are hard. The grunt work in ye olde days was probably done by apprentices. Consider the A3-31 as the Apprentice.

The fun in using handtools lies with joinery and finishing.

Incidentally, if you can only run to a jointer or a thicknesser, my argument is a jointer. It is possible to joint one side, then two edges, and glue them together. All one then as to do is run a mark around the panel and plane to that. Or, to joint one side of a single board, mark this, and plane to the mark. For me this is a better alternative to getting a thicknesser (which is the usual recommendation), and having to joint one face by handplane first, dealing with twists and cups. That is harder work.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Yeah, that's the equivalent of the machine I would choose. Something that will do the job quickly, easily, and accurately without sacrificing width.

If I had it to do over I would do a lot of things differently, and buying a good combo machine would be one of the first.

Cheers,
Luke

[IanW]

Luke - I second (or third) what the others have said about using machines to do the donkey work. There are a few folks who get their jollies by working off excess energy on hard woods with hand planes, but let's face it, apart from sped, a machine does a very good job of thicknessing - better than most of us can do by hand, unless we are exceedingly careful! Running through all the boards for a project at the one time, & having everything at the exact same thickness is a major plus..

Since you want to get pretty serious with your woodworking, I'd suggest at least a decent over-under jointer/thicknesser, and go for 300mm as a minimum, & bigger, if you've got the space & the cash. The advantage of bigger mahines is not just the greater mass & solidity, but the long beds, which make handling long stock a whole lot easier. I get by ok with my low-end jointer/thicknesser, and its beds are ok (just) for most furniture-sized tasks, but I would have preferred something a bit more robust. However, the jump in $$$ to an industrial grade machine was too hard to justify. It's done a good enough job on everything I've fed it so far, including plenty of Spotted gum & Ironbark, which aren't exactly a doddle for any machine, so I'm happy enough with it. I bought mine just before spiral heads became the go, which is a pity, because an equivalent machine I used with a spiral head did a better job and was far quieter, which may be a consideration for you, surrounded by suburbia as you are.

I think there's a general consensus amongst all but the most ardent hand-toolers that prepping stock by machine doesn't in any way detract from the 'hand-made' label. You'll shed far less sweat (stains some woods, terribly, does human sweat! ) & any marks left by rotary cutters can be eliminated very quickly with a few swipes of a plane, so no-one but you will ever know. As Derek said, the 'real' hand work is in cutting & fitting the joints, and shaping in ways that machines can't, or not without an absurd amount of jigging, at any rate. Unless you have a very well-heeled patron who insists on (and is prepared to pay for) pre-industrial woodworking from tree to living-room, you are highly unlikely to make even a meagre living using all hand-tools!

My 2c.

Cheers

[Luke Maddux]

300mm as a minimum, & bigger, if you've got the space & the cash.

Ian,

Which Australian supplier would have a machine larger than 300mm? Gregory and Carbatec don't have anything larger from what I can tell (?).

Carbatec has the big Jet 12" 3HP model with the spiral head cutter. It's pricey, but I am trying really hard to have a "Last ____ I'll ever need" approach to buying tools these days. I'm considering it.

Anyway, good to know I won't be shunned. I feel like I've done enough hand flattening and jointing to understand what it's about, and it's time to actually build some furniture...

Cheers,
Luke

[John Saxton]

Luke, a couple of machinery contacts here for you to work with to look for machinery within the Specs you want.


www.gabbett.com

http://www.felder-group-australia.co...n/contact.html

There are more however these two are prominent within OZ.

HTH

Cheers

[FenceFurniture]

Luke, you use a table saw doncha? Same deal with a thicky/jointer - grunt and accurate.

Get yourself an A3 31 Spiral and you'll have the biggest grin on your face. It opens up all sorts of possibilities, particularly for so called "free" timber (recycled).

For example, I'm building a deck out the front of my shed and I have about a cube of creosote covered floor joists ~60 years old, full of broken off rusty nails that cannot be removed. In conjunction with a pneumatic nail punch (Nail Kicker) I've dressed about 3/4 of these boards over the last 6 days at 3-4 hours per day. I've been saving the last remnants of the first edge of the cutters for just such a job - i.e. if I hit a nail and chip the edge of a cutter it doesn't matter much because they'll need to be rotated anyway for "proper" timber.

Now the thing is, I've hit LOTS of nail heads in this process (the little buggers hide) and I've only chipped the corner off one cutter which I moved to the outside edge of the head (almost never sees timber there). You can hear that slightly sickening little buzz when you hit one - four in one board yesterday. When the cutter just skims the top of the nail it doesn't chip the cutter (or seem to blunt it - but it must). I'm still getting ridgeless faces.....

My point here is that this would not be possible on a jointer/thicky with conventional blades, and certainly not with with hand planes. Apart from that, the spiral head is quieter, handles difficult grain brilliantly, better dust extraction (smaller chips), and the finish from new edges is excellent. That is too say that on this job alone I have probably been able to salvage ~$1000 in timber, which can be claimed of the cost of the A3 31.

There is of course the A4 41 option which would be fabulous mainly for thicknessing but also because of the longer tables. I think it's another $2-3k though. These machines hold their resale value very well indeed - there are virtually nil seem to come up for sale.

[Luke Maddux]

Cheers, Brett.

Yeah, I use the T-Saw... a lot. If I had to use the ripsaw/scrub plane instead, I would've taken up crochet or remote control airplanes a long time ago! I'm by no means a hand tool purist, but that initial reference face and edge created by hand was something that, until recently, I was hanging onto.

I think a 300mm combo machine is what I'll shoot for.

A major concern which I will need to research is the transferability from 240v power to 110v power when I one day move back to the US. At this point that move is at least 18 months away, but I want to know I won't have to invest more than 3-400 dollars more to make it happen. I've got a Sawstop table saw sitting at Carbatec waiting on a 15amp power point to be installed at my house. A big deciding factor on that purchase was the ease of transferability. They've made it a US$300 DIY ordeal instead of something requiring an electrician. It's something I'll look into more seriously when the time comes to actually drop the cash on the machine, but it will be an important factor.

While I'd love to have a 410mm jointer/thicknesser... I think that would be overdoing it. If a day came when woodworking was my career I would be the happiest guy alive, but I have every expectation it will remain a serious hobby for the foreseeable future. I think 410 is excessive for that scale, not to mention the dent it would put in my savings!

I'll definitely be getting the helical head. I feel like at this point if I'm going to make an investment in a machine like this, I have no other reasonable option, especially given, as Ian mentioned, my proximity to the neighbors.

I do wonder, at times, whether they prefer the 5-25 minute timeframes when I'm running the thicknesser/dusty or the hours and hours I spend hacking away at boards with the jack plane... So far they've been cool enough not to complain about either.

[FenceFurniture]

A major concern which I will need to research is the transferability from 240v power to 110v power when I one day move back to the US. At this point that move is at least 18 months away, but I want to know I won't have to invest more than 3-400 dollars more to make it happen.

I know the freight cost isn't a consideration because you'll be using a container, but you may still find it's not a worthwhile option to change it over. When you consider what you can purchase an A3 31 in the States for, and what you can sell a second hand one for here.....I'd reckon the changeover is probably close to nix. Check the prices of a new one in the States verses here.

[derekcohen]

While I'd love to have a 410mm jointer/thicknesser... I think that would be overdoing it.

Luke, my rule in this area takes into account I use handplanes to finish panels. The rule may not work if you want to run panels through a thicknesser.

Basically, the width of my thicknesser/jointer is balanced by the resaw capacity of my bandsaw (I am assuming that you own or plan to own a bandsaw). What is the point in attempting to resaw a board that is wider than will fit in the thicknesser/jointer? (And how much timber does one find that is wider than 12"?).

I have a Hammer 4400, which has a resaw capacity of 11 1/2". The Hammer A3-31 Jointer/thicknesser is 12" wide. For me, this is a perfect match.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Luke Maddux]

Luke, my rule in this area takes into account I use handplanes to finish panels. The rule may not work if you want to run panels through a thicknesser.

Basically, the width of my thicknesser/jointer is balanced by the resaw capacity of my bandsaw (I am assuming that you own or plan to own a bandsaw). What is the point in attempting to resaw a board that is wider than will fit in the thicknesser/jointer? (And how much timber does one find that is wider than 12"?).

I have a Hammer 4400, which has a resaw capacity of 11 1/2". The Hammer A3-31 Jointer/thicknesser is 12" wide. For me, this is a perfect match.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Totally agree. I have a small band saw now, but will upgrade later. This is something which will likely wait until I've moved back to the Stars and Stripes. It's done the job so far. I can resaw up to 6", which has taken care of all but a few resawing jobs.

That said, I actually kind of enjoy resawing by hand. Granted, I haven't done it a hundred times. I've probably done it five times when the job called for a bookmatched or otherwise thinner board which was wider than the bandsaw would handle. I haul out the old Disston D8 and go to town and it's rewarding and a bit of an excercise.

But if you asked me to do it more than about three times in a day... Next thing you know I'd be making a post like this one, only about a band saw instead of a combo machine

Like you, I want to finish panels by hand. I know that may sound strange, given that this post stemmed from two consecutive panel debacles, but the real problem was that the panels ended up misbehaving, and one misbehavior event was based on something (unknown) which went wrong during the dressing stage. Scraping the glue, knocking off the micro-ridges at glue joints, and smoothing are all part of the fun, but it was getting to be a bit of a bear on these last two projects.

Cheers,
Luke

[planemaker]

Ya just need to toughen up a bit Luke. Young fella's nowadays wouldn't know the true meaning of hard work.

Cheers Stewie;

[Luke Maddux]

Ya just need to toughen up a bit Luke. Young fella's nowadays wouldn't know the true meaning of hard work.

Cheers Stewie;

Hah! Well said.