Interesting Wheeler Madden Clemson

[Bushmiller]

Maybe some of the saw history buffs on here can answer if there is a connection between woodrough and mcparlin and wheeler, madden and clemson.

D.W.

The short answer is "Yes." Apparently they were both absorbed by Disston in 1893 (Source: Handsaw Makers of North America by Erv Schaffer.) At the same time Richardson Bros and Harvey W Peace were absorbed and consolidated under a new enterprise, National Saw Co.

I don't know if they continued to produce saws under the original names. Not an area with which I am familiar.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

The Simonds type ...

Attachment 356974

Paul

Simonds made those saws with a guard in their No.5, No.8 and No.10 at least. They were designated 5A, 8A & 10A, but amazingly, or not really for Simonds, they are not listed in any of the catalogues I have and I have six catalogues from 1907 through to 1923: Actually make that seven as a good friend has just acquired a 1903 catalogue and there are no "A" saws there either.

The saw pictured is an No.8A.

Regards
Paul

Regards
Paul

[D.W.]

I've got another small saw that has that guard. I'll try to take a picture of it tonight. I got it in a lot of orphan brands (that story again), and two of the saws turned out to be much smaller than the pictures suggested, so I gave one to my daughter to use and bang around in the shop (she's 5, small saws are good for her age).

It turns out to have the same brass guard at the bottom of the handle, and I never noticed it until yesterday. It has a strange etch, I can't remember what it says, but the picture tonight will remember it for me just fine.

[pmcgee]

Vulcan Saw Works, perhaps? (Harvey Peace)

[D.W.]

Vulcan Saw Works, perhaps? (Harvey Peace)

I think it may be a hardware store brand, and not something I've heard of before. When MJD sells lots like that, sometimes they group together saws that they've never heard of, or that have known hardware store labels, so that they can keep them away from saw lots that are all disston, etc.

It's a nice little saw, though - I'll take a picture of the etch tonight sans flash so that we can actually see it this time. I'm no fan of short saws in the shop, even my 12 point finishing saw is a 26 inch saw, and that tiny little saw is a 9 point saw, which makes it seem like a really coarse little bugger.

[D.W.]

CH Goble, Diamond ( I think it's a peace saw of some sort, I think you're right, Paul) - brooklyn.

The brass strap on the bottom is stamped peace, but I don't know if that implies anything about the saw or just the strap. Has the same 1883 patent date on the strap.

Unfortunately, the camera decided that the teeth were more important than the strap.

It's got nifty screws, they're not split nuts, but they have the same nice flatness and some pattern on them.

[pmcgee]

Hot diggetty I would be in sooo much trouble if I lived in the USA.

If you ever thought about passing it on, or just for any possible extra info, Josh @ Hyperkitten is a HP nut I believe.

Thanks for the pictures.

Paul

[D.W.]

Josh has helped me out a couple of times. When the kids grow, it'll probably go down the road. It's too small.

As far as being in trouble, you can gather I'm a cheapskate, because all of my saws have some cosmetic problem on some part!! I have only one clean very old saw, and I got it for the price of a dirty one. No such luck since then, though!

[Bushmiller]

CH Goble, Diamond ( I think it's a peace saw of some sort, I think you're right, Paul) - brooklyn.

The brass strap on the bottom is stamped peace, but I don't know if that implies anything about the saw or just the strap. Has the same 1883 patent date on the strap.

Unfortunately, the camera decided that the teeth were more important than the strap.

It's got nifty screws, they're not split nuts, but they have the same nice flatness and some pattern on them.

D.W.

This is only five years late, but I saw the reference at the foot of another thread. Nowadays I have a little more information. Of course you may no longer have the saw, but for what it is worth I believe the saw is a Hervey W. Peace No.P27. Interestingly it was quite a way down their model line up judging by the price. The fact it seemed a good saw speaks a lot for the brand.

The etch is the same, the handle protector and the three saw screws. This is from the 1895 catalogue under Disston ownership.

Harvey W. Peace P27 1895.PNG

Harvey W. Peace P27 1895 etch.PNG



Regards
Paul

[D.W.]

I believe the saw is a Hervey W. Peace No.P27. Interestingly it was quite a way down their model line up judging by the price. The fact it seemed a good saw speaks a lot for the brand.

The etch is the same, the handle protector and the three saw screws. This is from the 1895 catalogue under Disston ownership.

Harvey W. Peace P27 1895.PNG

Harvey W. Peace P27 1895 etch.PNG



Regards
Paul

Indeed I do still have the saw. It's fairly coarse for a crosscut saw so I don't use it every day, but it's stiff (can't remember what I said in this thread), but given the WS medallion, It's surprisingly good for a spot in the saw lineup that you've identified.

I've had some atkins saws that were probably higher priced saws that don't have nearly the same snap and tension that it does.

[Bushmiller]

D.W.

You mention the WS medallion and from a few recent examples I am forming the opinion that the four brands under the umbrella of the National Saw Company, which included Harvey W. Peace, may have extensively (but not exclusively) used WS medallions instead of their own name as would have happened before the Disston take over. My supposition is so that it would not detract from the Disston brand. The point I am making here in my clumsy way is that if you took a Disston No.12 and stuck a WS medallion on it, it would still be the same very good saw. I think this is what happened with many of the saws in the National Saw Co collection.

Another interesting difference with this P27 is the use of a Black Walnut handle (maybe you can verify that): As I have pointed out this timber was usually reserved for the saws with a reinforcing plate under the saw screws. Why that had developed I don't know. However, seeing it on any other saw is unusual. It was the only Peace saw in the range (1895) to use Black Walnut, except, you've guessed it, the No.110, which had a steel reinforcing plate under the screws.

Regards
Paul

[D.W.]

i'm afraid I've given some bad information - I've got two saws with this strap under the handle, and the other one (not goble) is actually the saw I've been using. The goble saw is a short tool box saw, so I'm not sure that I'd be able to tell if it's stiff or not - it's short.

The other is the crosscut carpenter saw shown in this picture (next to the goble).

I cannot recall if I had the goble unbroken before, but my kids used it for a short bit last year and promptly dropped it. Like a cat lands on their feet, any saw that lands in my shop lands on its horn and descent without damage is unheard of.

I think the large saw in this picture (Whyte) has a beech handle - it's got a lot of varnish on it, and beech and ample under an opaque varnish can be hard to tell apart because the grains that you can see on the handle don't have the characteristic flecks that beech has - they on the end grain and the flecks are on the sides of quartered beech.

The goble may have walnut - it's not beech, but I cannot tell for sure what it is, either.

https://i.imgur.com/8PtpZKn.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mpntB0J.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CLNMdzw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KjsCOMN.jpg