Floating Vs Solid Timber floor. ( A newbie)

[actUser]

Hello All,

We are building our first house through a builder and considering timber floor coverings for kitchen, living and family area.

Could you help with following queries.

1. Pros and cons of floating and solid timber floor.
2. Where to get good deals on timber in canberra.
3. Approx cost of jarrah timber (per meter square solid and floating ) installed.

Thanks

[kiwigeo]

Pros:

1. Generally cheaper than solid floor.....but often a case of getting what you pay for.
2. Relatively easy to lay...

Cons

1. Durability....alot of products are relatively soft tropical timbers and often cant hack the pace in an average house full of adults and children. My floor has been down for 3 years now and is looking in sorry shape...and thats in a house with no kids.
2. The thinner floors can only be sanded back and resurfaced a couple of times and then youre down to the base material and complete replacement is necessary.


If you can afford it go for a solid floor in a new place....will usually outlast a floating floor. If going for a floater...chose a hard timber and make sure its laid by proffesionals who know what theyre doing.

[Gumby]

Hello All,

We are building our first house through a builder and considering timber floor coverings for kitchen, living and family area.

Could you help with following queries.

1. Pros and cons of floating and solid timber floor.
2. Where to get good deals on timber in canberra.
3. Approx cost of jarrah timber (per meter square solid and floating ) installed.

Thanks

It depends what you want to pay really. Good solid hardwood floors which lay on existing yellow tongue flooring are 13mm thick so they last forever and can easily be sanded every few years to look like new again if needed. These are Brushbox, Spotted Gum, Jarrah etc and will up to $140 / sqm laid and finished if you get it done professionally. The timber alone is around $60/sqm.

check out www.boral.com.au

Full 19mm solid flooring is dearer again but doesn't need anything under it because it is just like the floorboards they used to use many years ago, except in more varieties.

The floating floors are cheaper and some are quite good. Others look like they should be lining a caravan wall and feel like you're walking on a sponge. I think they'll be ripping it out of a lot of homes in a few years. It's the 'Mission Brown' of the 2000's But as I said, some of it is good.

[kiwigeo]

Others look like they should be lining a caravan wall and feel like you're walking on a sponge. I think they'll be ripping it out of a lot of homes in a few years. It's the 'Mission Brown' of the 2000's But as I said, some of it is good.

Sounds like the cr*p on my floor at present.......wish Id done more homework before buying the stuff. When it comes to relaying Ill be doing the job myself.

[Trav]

If you are building from scratch then I'd recommend that you get the proper boards laid. Floating floors are good, but given you have the builder there, you might as well get the real deal.

There are a stack of timber flooring places in the phonebook. Perhaps try CAA timber or country and heritage timber floors. I'll be getting some timber laid in my future house sometime in the next few months and I think it was about $130-140 sq m for tassie oak from memory (that is laid and fully finished).

Floating floors will be cheaper, but not that much. For 1 plank (meaning each board is made from 1 bit of veneer, 2 plank means that they use smaller bits of veneer, 3 plank = even smaller bits) you'll be looking at over $100 for good stuff. That's why it is worth going for new timber at the start.

My only other comment on the jarrah would be that it is very dark on the floor.

Trav

[Gumby]

My only other comment on the jarrah would be that it is very dark on the floor.
Trav

Agree about the dark colour. And remember, whatever you choose will go much darker during the first 12 months. Watch the direct sunlight , particularly during that period.

[Justin]

We did a partial reno on our place, part of which was pulling up the grotty old carpet and polishing (2 pack) the tas oak floors about 6 years ago. The two main factors I'd be thinking about would be durability of the timber and the finish, and the possibility of squeaking if you use solid boards.

We have one big strong cat, and two kids under four, and the boards are at a stage in some places where it's seriously time for another sand and polish. The areas that need a touch up are where dings or scratches have been left behind by the two and four legged occupants (chairs, claws, toys etc). I can handle the wear and tear, but the thing that drives me mad is squeaky boards in high traffic areas, particularly when you're creeping around in the middle of the night trying not to wake the kids.

We are now planning a first floor extension, and whilst I love the practicality of boards, I'm thinking seriously about overlay flooring so we don't get the squeaks. The 12 mm overlay stuff under Gumby's Boral link looks good for this (nice one Gumby), I also like the hardness rating that they give per species.

One last thing - if you have someone apply the finish on site, try and wait as long as you can for it to cure before you put any furniture on it, particularly stuff with hard castors or small wooden feet. Stick on felt from bunnings that you can cut to size really helps for this kind of furniture.


Cheers,


Justin

[Gumby]

We are now planning a first floor extension, and whilst I love the practicality of boards, I'm thinking seriously about overlay flooring so we don't get the squeaks. The 12 mm overlay stuff under Gumby's Boral link looks good for this (nice one Gumby), I also like the hardness rating that they give per species.
Cheers,Justin

I had 20 year old particle board flooring which had a few sqeaks in it before the 12mm hardwood went down. That firmed it up a lot and there's hardly a sqeak left. A mate of mine put the full 19mm over his particle board floors. He only did it because he got on to some very cheap 19mm floors so it wasn't planned. That's like a rock ! He says he'd build that way again if he had a choice.

[Eastie]

I’m replacing floors and have started looking at floorboards over red tongue 22mm flooring for 600mm joist spacing. How things change in a couple of years - I can’t believe the terminology differences in the flooring market!


I’ve seen instructions for gluing / nailing /gluing & nailing “floating floors” (they would float real well when nailed and glued!), timber “overlay boards” in both solid timber and laminated veneer, “solid timber overlay” board installation for direct nail/secret nail/nail &” glue/ just glue BUT not floating, instructions to use underlay, instructions not to use underlay, recommendations to use 19mm floor boards instead of 12-13mm overlay, ……..
<O</O

I declare shenanigans...

[corbs]

...but the thing that drives me mad is squeaky boards in high traffic areas, particularly when you're creeping around in the middle of the night trying not to wake the kids.

Not sure if you have tried it or even if it works but I am sure I saw a suggestion for sweeping talcum powder over squeeky areas which gets into joins and acts as a dry lubricant... squeek gone??:confused:hopefully.

Back to the theme of the thread, no idea about wood but we have compressed bamboo which looks fantastic and cost me about $90 square (laid by me). Its been down for about 18 months so far with some pretty heavy traffic (5 y/o, 3 y/o & psychotic dog) and its still looking great. Dont think it can be sealed and sanded though.

Corbs

[kiwigeo]

Stick on felt from bunnings that you can cut to size really helps for this kind of furniture.

My wife got some neat little "chair socks" last time she was back home in Japan.....theyre little socks you slip over legs of furniture and they work a treat. Also great to hang above the fireplace this christmas if youre really stingey or just want to cheese of your kids.

[slabman]

When it comes to flooring be affraid, be very affraid. There's more fantasy than reality out there in the recommendations you hear from on-sellers and some floor layers and builders.

Just to give you an example. I inspected a "professionally" laid floor last week in a new building to provide an opinion. It involved a 20m wide flooring area using 19mm hardwood boards laid direct over joists on bearers and studs. The floor had expanded around 500mm, pushing bearers to the edge of the stumps and breaking the walls of the building. The professional layer had cautioned the building owner that the risk they faced was that the floor may shrink!<O</O

When it comes to floors there are no standards other than the Australian Standards for timber grading and moisture content. The Flooring Association under the umbrella of the MBA have developed guidelines for solid timber floors, but they are just that guidelines and there is no requirement to observe them. For example, they recommend 15mm (12mm minimum) CD ply under solid boards over concrete. Around here 7-9mm is used 'cause its cheaper even though the installer and the on-sellers recommending this would be exposed to a liability if the application fails!<O</O

As for floating floors, there are no standards or guidelines. The best thing to do is read the specifications from quality producers such as Khars or even Premium.<O</O

As it stands the guidelines and the more experienced and reputable manufacturers represent best practice in the industry and this will often be used as a guide for assessing floors that have failed and assigning liability.<O></O>

So beware of the salesman who ignores best practice in their recommendations.<O</O

Now back to the question at hand. Floating or Solid? It comes down to your application and personal taste. Solid is preferred by most people. But certain floating floors do excel in particualr applications. Some floating floor manufacturers dry and seal in vapour resistant packaging their products to a very low moisture content (e.g. 7.5%). These are often specified for dry environemnts such as air-conditioned buildings and can perform better than soild timber floors which would be difficult to equlise during the consturction phase to the 6to8% MC needed to survive in many airconditioned building.
<O</O
Some floating floors have between 3.5mm and 5mm veneer above the structure of the board. These are suitable for re-sanding. Theoretically the 5mm veneers should give a similar number of sandings as a solid board of 19mm (which normally has 5mm above the tongue).
<O</O
As to hardness/durability. This will come down to finish and veneer material amongst other things. Some companies use 2 packs, some use ceramic based finishes, others use whatever they can get and some produce the product raw without finish. Some companies will provide warranties on their finishes (5years +) just to prove their point, often these are using the ceramic and 2 pack finish. The main drawback with this is that which quite scratch resistant, they can only be repaired by re-sanding and finishing and matching the finish is unlikely.<O</O
<O</O

The veneer available vary dramatically from Australian hardwoods to European/us species and rainforest timbers. Its best to find out which wood is being used and read up on its properties and buy according to the properties you need for your environment.<O</O

Having said this, my house has only solid timber floors and the next one will too!

[Flooringexpert]

1. Pros and cons of floating and solid timber floor.

Floating, the floor is allowed to expand and contract as apposed to being fixed down like solid timber where you have air conditioning this could take the moisture out of the boards causing them to contract and seperate. this will not happen to a floating floor as its aloud to breath.

floating floor has a warranty where solid does'nt

you'll get the same amount of sands from floating as you can only sand to the tounge and groove of the solid floor.

dont use boral timber they have had production problems alot not a good quality, dont get stung they have a long way to go.

premium floors intl. give a lifetime warrantie on the product.

2. Where to get good deals on timber in canberra.

go to sydney prices are alot better you can pick up a floating or pre finished floor from $50/m2

3. Approx cost of jarrah timber (per meter square solid and floating ) installed.

solid raw $70/m2
pre fin $124/m2

Floating $85 with a lifetime guarantee.

for further inqueries feel free to give me a call

cheers
Jay

(02) 464 777 94

[E. maculata]

Jay be careful, a few of us Members are heavily involved in this feild, manufacturers, R&D experts as well, some of us actually teach the retailers and installers what the pitfalls are.
Broad opnions like you made about the green & gold company are just that, how many production plants do they have in which locales, what QA systems are used in the outlets which stock their product, to ensure the product recommend is the appropriate one for the customer. I hear rumours too, but under investigation 90% turn out to be false accusations or retailer/installation issues.

[glock40sw]

G'day Jay.

Although I have no love for the Big B,
I wouldn't go dumping on their product.

As E. Maculata (G'day Bruce) stated above, some of us have forgotten more about Hardwood flooring than most so called producers and sellers will ever know.

ALso, In one of your other posts, you suggest using Construction Adhesive to glue down flooring. Mate, you would not want to use it on any of MY T&G production. Ultraset or T55j only! I've seen the results of using Maxbond etc etc etc . Only a fool would use it for Timber flooring.

Also, I seem to remember a while ago, Premium had a lot of timber dumped at an Auction house due to poor manufacturing processes.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor.
Grafton