Advice on Gasless MIG welders

[Bodgy]

Guys, Spent a few hours yesterday burning holes thru a thin box section steel extrusion with my trusty arc welder. Seems to always happen, jobs around the house always seem to have thin steel that I put more holes in than weld.

Finally gonna bite the buleet and get a gasless MIG, gasless cause I'm not going to pay rent on bottles for 3 uses a year.

Questions:
I manage alright with ARC, when the steels more than a pubic hair thick, is MIG any harder to use?
Can I weld aluminium, stainless and more with MIG?
Does it really let you weld very thin plate?
Dont much care about splatter, any other major differences gas/gasless?

Sorry the above are braindead, have googled all the MIG manufacturer sites but they assume a higher level of knowledge.

Finally, for 3-4 times use a year I thought I'd get a $200-300 model off Ebay. Without prejudice, what's the difference to the $600+ models.

Yeah it'd be cheaper going to the local weld place, but I just like tools - OK.

Bodgy

[gatiep]

Questions:
I manage alright with ARC, when the steels more than a pubic hair thick, is MIG any harder to use?
Can I weld aluminium, stainless and more with MIG?
Does it really let you weld very thin plate?
Dont much care about splatter, any other major differences gas/gasless?

Sorry the above are braindead, have googled all the MIG manufacturer sites but they assume a higher level of knowledge.

Finally, for 3-4 times use a year I thought I'd get a $200-300 model off Ebay. Without prejudice, what's the difference to the $600+ models.

Yeah it'd be cheaper going to the local weld place, but I just like tools - OK.

Bodgy

Mig is easier when set up properly

Yes with the right wire and gas ( or gasless wire at great expense ) you can weld those. The cheaper welders will need the sheath of the cable/gun replaced with a plastic one for ali.

Yes, fairly thin plate, but not in unskilled hands. IOW, practice, practice and practice which you won't get by welding only 3 times a year. The higher priced machines use 15 amp plug and then the next step up is to 3 phase.


Cored wire for gasless is mainly used by amateur machines and is very expensive. The polarity of gun and 'earth' need to be swapped. Weld quality is not as good as with gas.

The more expensive machines are more voltage/current stable, more stable wire feed, better adjustable both in current and wire speed. They usually have the capacity to take 1Kg to 15 Kg wire rolls. 15 Kg is only very little more expensive than the 1 and 5 Kg rolls as they are manufactured for the industry. The more expensive machines have a greater output and can handle heavier guage wire.

Yeah, it will be cheaper going to the local weld shop plus the weld will be good too. If you like tools then buy the best you can afford as with mig welders the frustration of some of the cheaper models making using them impossible and soon they gather dust and take up valuable space in the shed.

Like with other tools: You only get what you pay for.

PS. Make sure you have a good quality helmet as arc eyes are definately not funny.

[goat]

gassless wire is going to be phased out soon cause it's a carcinogen so go with gas or buy up big on the wire

[Bodgy]

Thank you Gentlemen

No MIG gassless for me. Clinchers, poor results with handyman type machines, approaching obsolesence. Maybe learn to braize again, thin plate my main interest.

Bodgy

[bsrlee]

Gasless MIG = stick welding without having to change sticks

Another 'trick' I found handy when learning to weld thin section is to back up the weld with a big piece of Aluminium - it acts as a heat sink, reducing the tendancy of a whole section going 'blop' on the floor (I was welding a fair bit of stainless sheet, which tends to go 'blop' a lot ) If you are welding round or square hollow section you just have to find a size that fits insode down to the weld, and can still be pulled back out

And if you stuff it up, the Alli catches the drip before it goes in your boot, and may even keep it in place.

[foaley77]

Does anyone have these mig welders from Ebay are they any good what does the cost of wire cost?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....MakeTrack=true

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....MakeTrack=true

[peter_sm]

In my opinion, gasless MIG welders are a waste of money if you want to do anything neat and/ or intricate. They are only good for building garden gates. They can't handle big jobs, and can't do neat stuff like panel steel on a car.

If you can't justify the cost of the bottle hire, then you can't justify having the welder at all. You will be dissapointed. Aluminium welding requires a different gas, wire and liner for the welding gun.

If the power and wire feed are setup right, you can with experience weld 0.85mm sheet upsidedown edge to edge.

[SPIRIT]

nothing wrong with a gasless mig ,,true a big juisie mig that cost big bucks is great but we all don't have the cash to spend on something we use a few times a year l have the cigweld turbo 135 it can be gas or gasless the gasless wire is $26 a roll this will larst about 20 ark weld rods
that is round about ,for thin stuff it's good and easy to use my 11 y/old can use it,for heaver metal use your ark best of both worlds then .and as for clean welds it has a bit more of a slatter than gas welds ( 90% just rub off) l love my mig no bottle cost

[foaley77]

How much is the bottle hire can't you buy them?

[SPIRIT]

not that l know of it's like the oxy set just rent

[DJ’s Timber]

How much is the bottle hire can't you buy them?

Depending on what size bottle you use, the hire cost are about $20 to $30 a quarter plus whatever the cost of the gas is. When it's empty you just swap it for another bottle and just pay for the gas.

As for buying bottles, they are around the $500 to $700 mark and when the run out you have to pay to get them filled which includes a pressure and safety test and on top of that you also pay for the gas as well. Don't know what this cost is but generally it is cheaper to hire the bottles rather than buying them.

[Grahame Collins]

Gasless it is not.The topic has been done to death a few times here as a search will bear out. The flux core process is designed around the need for depositing large amounts of filler metal in the flat or semi flat positions. It involves fairly large heat inputs and therfore not suitable for thin walled sections or sheets

Two factors always seem to crop up in pre purchase mig discussions and they both involve money. Avoiding cylinder rental (rental only -no one sells the shielding gas cylinders outright OK ) and purchase of a cheap machine.

GMAW - Gas Metal Arc Welding and FCAW Flux core Arc Welding are radically different in their useful applications. GMAW is a shielded process that is capable of welding thin section.FCAW at best is suitable from 3mm and up and is even worse than the poor old stick welder at bridging burnt gaps in sheet metal.

Secondly purchasing a no name brand from ebay usually begats a no available spares and no available service / backup situation. Please do not misunderstand , there certainly are genuine sellers there selling named products.The kicker is you pay extra for the good stuff.

Perhaps it time to do another photographic tutorial,this time on the welding process applications as applicable to the Welder DIY Domesticus genus.

What say you all?

Grahame

[Harry72]

Perhaps it time to do another photographic tutorial,this time on the welding process applications as applicable to the Welder DIY Domesticus genus.

What say you all?

Grahame

Yep I'll be reading it!

[Wood Butcher]

Perhaps it time to do another photographic tutorial,this time on the welding process applications as applicable to the Welder DIY Domesticus genus.

What say you all?

Grahame, I'm sure that a lot of members would appreciate the effort!!

(or maybe even a video)

[Outsider]

Grahame

I too would love to read another of your tutorials.

I too am a very part-time welder. I built a stick welder while an apprentice electrical fitter. Trouble is with my eyes. I can see any thing if there is enough light. Of course a dark welding shield is lightless.

The few atttempts I've had with my auto-darkening shield was much better. Not partarcularly good mind you but much better.

I have read the thread on the auto-darkening shield and I had bought the one from Gaswelld.

Cheers
Brian