Stanley/Bailey No4 & 7 restoration

[springwater]

Did the bolt arrive safely? Damien

We don't get the mail delivered here Damien and I've been getting home to late from work to collect it from the PO. Hopefully I may be able to get there tomorrow though.

[springwater]

I made it to the PO a minute before it closed and left a little disappointed without the expected
delivery, a hand full of bills and ad stuff. Apparently the owners are new so maybe they missed something in the rush before close. I'll check next week.

[springwater]

Still no bolt and no ink for printer, life is harsh at times.

[hiroller]

My printer died and I never bothered replacing it.
At 4c a page for B&W from the local Officeworks for my occasional printing needs it is much much cheaper than the 30 to 50c a page for most home printers.
Just sayin'

[springwater]

Thank you hiroller, I hadn't thought of that, now I'll have to fish out a few silver coins, they're gunna love me at Office Works: "can you just reduce that by half a percent please?"

[springwater]

I got a bit of shed time this afternoon and used it to make a start on the tote. I must say I wasn't all that confident in being able to do it so I cut enough material for plan a, b, c and d in case I buggered it up. They all turned out fairly well so far with a couple of both Spotty Gum and Blue Gum on the go. Ran out of time to overcome the anticipated problem with drilling the boss hole and since I don't have a 14mm drill bit to do it I shut the shed door before I attempted doing it with a spade bit and potentially ruining a good arvo.
Really not much to show but this is where I got to:

[springwater]

Little feats, the Boss and nib recesses are done! Ended up doing the Boss recess withe a spade bit while clamping the tote between what in effect was two parallel rails of dead straight KD hardwood and went for glory. After that I thought everything was downhill as all I had to do was the little nib hole. Even though I centre punched a start, the drill wandered a bit withe the result being imperfect but not so much to worry about. Glad I've got half a dozen to choose from
image.jpg

Onto to the cutting ou and shaping hopefully next week

[IanW]

... Even though I centre punched a start, the drill wandered a bit withe the result being imperfect but not so much to worry about. ...

Don't beat yourself up too much springwater. I find getting that darned nib hole spot on to be a challenge, & I've made a few totes in my time!

As you say, it's not super-critical..
Cheers,

[springwater]

Yeah nah I'm not too worried Ian and thanks for you're support with it, it's a pesky little so n so though as it's stopping the tote sitting flat at the moment but we're going to have a little talk about that tomorrow! I've managed to cut three out albeit very slowly using my old moaning scroll saw which more used to whipping around three ply than Spotty Gum. Hopefully I'll get the time to shape a few over the weekend. The plan is to use a 12mm radius round over bit while the tote sits on some sand paper surrounded by some off cuts for router base support...could get interesting. If you see a low flying UFO don't panic it'll just be my tote
image.jpg

[IanW]

...... The plan is to use a 12mm radius round over bit while the tote sits on some sand paper surrounded by some off cuts for router base support...could get interesting....

I know I do things that others consider 'risky' but I draw the line at getting my fingers that close to a spinning router bit. I'd spend as much time as needed making sure my holding jig was very secure, and any valued parts of me were well clear of any bitey parts of machinery, if I were to do it that way.

However, I wouldn't even consider using machinery for the shaping step. A rasp, a coarse half-round file, and some cloth-backed sandpaper can remove a lot of wood quickly, with a bit lot more control, and only the occasional flesh-wound should happen...

Doing it by hand also allows you to make a much more elegant & more functional shape than a round-over bit can produce:Fixed.jpg

I know more 'modern' totes are done with roundovers, but they look pretty crude, and are nowhere near as good to use. If you look at an old (pre WW2) handle, you'll see that the cross-section is more oval than rounded-over. The front of the grip is a fairly regular, slight oval shape, which suits curled fingers, but the back needs a bit more attention to detail. Starting from just under the 'horn', you take off lot of wood to make a flattened oval (this is the area that tucks in between thumb & index finger). That is blended into a more rounded shape over the bulge (which is what fits into your palm & where most of the force gets transferred) and ends up pretty much a semi-circle at the base: TinFist.jpg

"Finger gauging" some layout lines on the blank helps a lot in keeping the shaping symmetrical - the general idea is set out in this post.

I would also have chosen a more fine-grained wood than Spotted gum, but this is your first go & I realise you don't want to risk expensive stuff. I'll be first to admit I stuffed up some perfectly good wood along the way of learning to make reasonable totes! But beware, getting handles just right & to your taste can get out of hand, DAMHIK!

Cheers,

[derekcohen]

I totally agree with Ian. Warning sirens began to shrill when I read your intent to use a round over bit. My god! That will get your finger far too close to the sharp edges. Even if you could attach the handle to a support, the danger is high of destroying your work in the blink of an eye. Far better to use rasps or files and sandpaper.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[springwater]

Well not enough time in the day to have a go at shaping the tote, there would have been if I lived in a place with long drive way but I don't and should keep the peace I suppose. Ian and Derek, I think you may be thinking that I intend to use a fixed router poking up from a table, I'm not that stupid although I must admit it did cross my mind for a fleeting moment. I've shaped hundreds of handles (not totes), basic ones, with a hand held router without problems, in fact a trimmer would be my go to if I had one at home. That been said I appreciate what you both have said regarding safety and that the shape required for comfort won't be achieved by only using a round over bit. Thanks for your description of the subtleties of the tote shape Ian, I'm not sure of the age of my planes, I'm guessing about 50 to 60 years old and studied the shape again which seems to fit your description pretty well. I must say though, even though I have an average sized hand my little finger gets a bit squashed with a regular sized tote and tend to rest it on the plane base if that makes sense? I'm only restricted by the available bolt length, otherwise I'd like to experiment with the tote being 10mm taller. I agree with you too Ian about a finer grain wood being more preferable as cranky grained as it is, it'll just have to do.

[IanW]

...... I have an average sized hand my little finger gets a bit squashed with a regular sized tote and tend to rest it on the plane base if that makes sense? I'm only restricted by the available bolt length, otherwise I'd like to experiment with the tote being 10mm taller....

The cramped little pinkie is a pretty common complaint, SW, and it's partly due to the tight radius as the handle curves into the straight-ish part. I have a very slightly smaller than average hand, & whilst the old pre-WW2 totes fit me to perfection, you can see in my post above that there isn't a lot of spare room! It helps a bit if you ease the front curve into a flattened oval at this point. Because Stanley et al have stuck with (what is nowadays) an odd-ball thread for their studs, it isn't easy to substitute a longer stud, and in any case, you can't make the tote much more than about 4-5mm higher, or it will foul the lateral adjuster on a #5 or smaller plane, where the tote sits close to the frog. But you could make it a teeny bit longer and simply sink the cap nut in deeper. Doesn't look as neat as having it flush, as intended, though Finally, by taking off plenty of wood under the horn as I was suggesting, your hand sits up a teeny bit higher and relieves the cramping slightly. Each little bit helps, you have several 'spares' so you can afford to try a bit of experimenting...

Cheers,

[springwater]

Thanks Ian, your adice is very much appreciated. A quick bite to eat then some time to devise a holding jig and I'm into it.

[springwater]

Does anyone know someone that can identify a plane if a sent them a picture of my planes? I need to know what sort of thread I need for the #4 tote bolt and the #7 tote screw.