Gramercy hold fasts

[Thylacene]

Here a while back I purchased a Veritas lever lock hold fast, and while it is useful, it struggles to put enough clamping force on pieces of timber on my bench. I visited the Canberra show over the weekend, and in a rush of blood (and based on my reading here) I forked out a few bucks for a pair of Gramercy holdfasts. I also purchased a couple of slabs of Red Cedar. the first of which was 2.8m long, 400mm wide and 38mm thick. I set to on Saturday and cut the slab in half to make two shelves for a tv stand, and the first pieces was nice and flat, however the second had 8mm of warp/twist over the 1.4m length. The first slab I only had to take 1.3mm off either side, but the second half became quite a challenge.

I set to with a hand plane, and at stumps last night I had a flat and level 30mm thick slab and a big bag of shavings. My plane was nice and sharp, but the stars of the day were the gramercy holdfasts. After a little bit of trial and error I worked out how to position them so that the pressure applied planing did not cause them to let go. I estimate that I clamped and released the slab more than a hundred times over the course of the day. They made the job so much easier (0.56 square metres and 8mm in depth, so the arms/shoulders got a great workout). They hold with far greater pressure than the Veritas lever type, and are at least twice as fast to set and release. After just one day they have nice little flat spots on the curve where they get belted with a hammer to set them after the first day already.

I initially built a couple of wooden ones, but the 19mm dowel I used packed it in in a reasonably short time. The Veritas hold fast does a reasonable job, but it is chalk and cheese using the Gramercy ones. I think I have read almost every post on hold fasts on this forum and quite a few others, but having tried the three different types, I can only recommend, what appears on the surface, to be the least sophisticated product, and at half the price of the "sophisticated" type. Many would have been amused, as I marked out 150mm intervals and 19 drilled holes through my bench as required.

The other interesting learning on the way through was that as I flattened, it became easier to pick the high spots by feel than by using a straightedge. It is the largest piece that I have flattened by hand, and possibly my best effort yet. I really won't know until I get a finish on it, but I reckon I have got it very close. It took more than half the day before I could "feel" the high spots, turning the slab and working out where it was "pivoting" and then turn it back over and run my palm over it, mark the section with chalk, plane and move onto the next section. A satisfying and enlightening experience. And by the end of the day I could throw my No. 7 Jointer the full diagonal length. Muscle memory develops quickly, almost as quickly as the buckets of sweat that poured out of me. Next step will be to give the No.4 a sharpen and smooth the face to remove the odd "track" and shavings that remain partially attached.

Just posting in case any other newbies are interested. All I can say is that I wish that I had a set of these years ago.

[Old gunnie]

Great post Thylacene.

Got a pair of these myself that I haven't managed to use yet. How thick is your bench? I'm worried mine at 45mm isn't thick enough.

Cheers,
OG.

[IanW]

I guess what works for you, works, Thylacene, but using holdfasts to clamp a board for planing seems an odd way to go about it, to me. I would have clamped the board between bench dogs so I could work on any part of the whole surface, & checked progress by sighting along it, then with winding sticks as the surface started to get close to flat & straight. Of course, if you don't have a tail vise or travelling dog system, it's a different story, but one experience of clamping & un-clamping a board 50 times to plane it flat would drive me to building a tail vise very smartly!

Or am I missing something?

Cheers,

[Thylacene]

IanW

The slab was slightly longer than the bench, and I haven't got around to acquiring an end vice yet as there have been other priorities. My bench size was constrained by the amount of available real estate in my shed, and I had intended to work on smaller projects, but stuff happens.

Once I have shaped the pieces they will fit on the bench (just) and I will use dogs for final smoothing.

[Thylacene]

OG,

My bench is 65mm thick, and I have 19mm holes, at 45 you should be fine, but I am no expert. My reading on here suggests that the thicker the bench, the less friction you get with holdfasts, but I would suggest you try one in a piece of scrap, of a similar thickness to your benchtop if you haven't drilled holes yet.

[FenceFurniture]

I've had a pair of these for over a year but had nothing to use them with (main bench is unsuitable). However, yesterday I put some dog 'oles in my outdoor bench and the holdfasts are a revelation in speed clamping and unclamping (as I knew they would be).

I glued a little pad of non-slip rubber mat to each foot with PolyU glue.

When testing the drilling rig that I used, I drilled through a piece of scrap 4x2 (through the 4"). This was a very good move that saved me from myself - I had waxed the shafts to curb rust whilst stored and of course the holdfast would not work in the hole. An excellent reminder to clean off the shaft with white spirits and go around (i.e. not along) the shaft with 80g sandpaper. Once that waxy (or oily) shaft has been in a hole that hole will be rendered useless for a good long while, if not forever.

I also have one from Auriou which has a higher head and a longer shaft. It performs identically to the Gramercy but is significantly higher cost. The only possible advantage that I can see is when you need the extra height for some weird shaped job.

Just in case it's not commonly known, the Gramercies are available from the HNT Gordon website.

[FenceFurniture]

OG,

My bench is 65mm thick, and I have 19mm holes, at 45 you should be fine, but I am no expert. My reading on here suggests that the thicker the bench, the less friction you get with holdfasts, but I would suggest you try one in a piece of scrap, of a similar thickness to your benchtop if you haven't drilled holes yet.

What happens is the thinner the bench top, the greater the angle of the shaft through the hole. Not sure what the angle upper limit is, but I suspect there will still be some grab (maybe plenty) with a 45mm top.

OG, I'll drill a hole in some 45mm timber today for a test, and come back with the results.

[FenceFurniture]

I just drilled a 3/4" inch hole through 45mm thick Eucalyptus, clamped it to my bench and put a holdfast into place, clamping a piece of smooth pine.

When compared to the hold I can get on the other bench (which has 100mm deep holes) the lateral and longitudinal hold seemed to be more or less the same (not movable). With a twisting force the shallower hole had less resistance (noticeable), but if this became a problem I believe it could be remedied by putting non slip mat underneath the job to be held - prolly good practice anyway.

So, OG, drill away!

[IanW]

......The slab was slightly longer than the bench, and I haven't got around to acquiring an end vice yet .....

Well, I guess you didn't have a lot of options, did you? Makes sense to me now you've explained the situation..

......My bench size was constrained by the amount of available real estate in my shed, and I had intended to work on smaller projects, but stuff happens.....

Yes, I know the feeling, both with limited space and changing priorities. As someone said, life is what happens whilst we are busy making other plans. When I made my own bench it had to fit a specific spot, and I can get just a whisker shy of 2M between the dogs. I thought it would be more than long enough to clamp anything I'd ever need, but there have been maybe half a dozen times in the 30 years since I made it that I've wished it were 100mm longer. I think the moral is, no matter how long you build your bench, you will always wish it was a little longer, once in a while......

Cheers,

[Thylacene]

Just a snippet of info I sort of glossed over in the original post is that the angle that you locate the holdfast has much to do with how stable the workpiece is. As I was planing the first bits I thought I had made a terrible mistake, but I realised reasonably quickly it was because I had the holdfasts pointing the direction I was pushing the plane, as I pushed the plane, the movement released the holdfast. Once I positioned them correctly there was no movement at all.

The biggest thing was the convenience of the clamp and release, after years of using clamps and vises to hold pieces, it was just wonderful to be able to place the piece and two taps with a hammer and it just stayed where it was put, and released in under a second.

[Sawdust Maker]

do you wish you'd got 3 instead of 2?

[doug3030]

The biggest thing was the convenience of the clamp and release, after years of using clamps and vises to hold pieces, it was just wonderful to be able to place the piece and two taps with a hammer and it just stayed where it was put, and released in under a second.

I have two pair of the Gramercy holdfasts that I bought over a year ago, but the benches I bought them for are still a work in progress (bad back, workplace injury, competing priorities, life getting in the way).

However, I have been using many makeshift ways of holding workpieces for years until I can have my bench. Since I got the Gramercy holdfasts I have sometimes used two Triton Superjaws with offcuts from the timber for my workbench top held in them. I have drilled 19mm holes at appropriate places in these offcut pieces, which are 2.5" thick as the top of the workbench will be. It is not as good as a workbench of course, but it lets me do things until I have the bench.

2.5" or approx 60mm thickness seems to work well with the Gramercy holdfasts. Quite often I just drop the holdfast onto the workpiece and it locks the workpiece tight, no need to tap it with a mallet or anything. I have won bets doing this.

I am a big fan of Gramercy holdfasts

Cheers

Doug

[Thylacene]

do you wish you'd got 3 instead of 2?

I will sell the Veritas one and buy another pair

[Bushmiller]

Thylacene

I have a couple of Gramercy holdfasts and use them in a bench top only 45mm thick. They work fine. One wack with the mallet and they are solid. The general rule is that the thinner the bench, the smaller diameter for the hole. In a thin bench the shaft is able to achieve more of an angle. As the bench thickness increases, it may be necessary to increase the hole size, but start off with no more than 19mm. As others have said, try it first, preferably on a piece of scrap.

My shed is extremely crude with only three walls and the Gramercys rust quite easily. Initially this offended me and I would continually clean them up with steel wool. Then I twigged that they work much, much better when rusted so now I don't bother with the cosmetics. The grip is more significant. In fact Gramercy recommend that the shaft of the holdfast is roughened with coarse sandpaper for maximum purchase.

Regards
Paul

[Old gunnie]

(snipped...)

So, OG, drill away!

And drilling away I go ... )!

Thanks FF, Thy!