Just How many of our problems a really due to getting older?

[artme]

Well, I'm convinced the medicos are about as ignorant as the rest of us.

For years I have had aches and pains and, at times, real lethargy.

I have had a double bypass and have a stent. I also have a VP shunt as a
result of Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus.

For some years I was on medication - statins - to lower my blood cholesterol.
I was overweight and my blood sugars were always just below the limit.

I went on a low carb high fat regime. I lost about 26 kilos, the blood sugars dropped
to somewhere nearly out of sight. My HDLs were wonderful and my LDLS were the best
they had been in years. Triglycerides were good. Dandruff disappeared, psoriasis in
the ears vanished, I stopped having to clear nose 4 and 5 times a night. I slept better.
The cardio took me off statins and my aches and pains retired.

I am still on the eating regime but the doc put me back on statins after a trip overseas
when it wasn't possible to eat as was good for me.Aches and pains returned with a vengence
but at first I did not relate this to statins. A blood test showed high - very high - creatin levels
and the cardio ordered me to stop the statins immediately. The aches and pains disappeared!
I also weened my self off antidepressants. I feel generally better than I have for many, many years.

Now I am told by my cardio that there are raging arguments in the medical fraternity regarding
the effective of statins and of fishoil. Surely science is science?? I know when I was on high doses
of fish oil along with a normal dose of clopidigral I bruised like buggery. Halved the dose of fish oil
and things are fine. Go figure.

My urologist tells me that stains are one thing he would not prescribe ( because of what they do
to the kidneys).

The GPs I have dealt with since moving here are not really up with enough. One didn't want
anything done with regards to the NPH - old age!!!, another who I saw as an emergency wanted
to change the whole of my cardio prescribed blood pressure regime. I chided my GP about the lack
of education regarding triglycerides and he took that well saying he would be more cognisant of this
in future.

In talking with others it appears that too many in the medical profession are far too inclined to
simply accept the served up by the pharmaceutical companies and use that as the basis
for many of their treatments. Not good enough!!

Bit of a dis connected ramble but I had to have a grumble.

PS> cognitive behavioural therapy leaves pills in its wake!! and it eventually costs far less.

[alexm1]

I think that one of the keys to good health or at least good treatment is to take responsibility for your your own wellbeing. Doctors are not magicians, they can only give advice or prescribe medicine based on what they are told plus what they are able to observe and it is wise to challenge them, not simply accept what is delivered.
I expect that many doctors become disheartened at constantly seeing their advice and guidance ignored; overweight patients, patients who smoke, drink to excess, eat the wrong diet - and I am sure much more! We could all be guilty of taking the path of least resistance if our advice and guidance was constantly ignored. Reading between the lines I think you are describing yourself as a person who has taken responsibility for your own wellbeing and are consulting and challenging experts who are helping you to stay healthy, not a bad thing!

[Yanis]

...The cardio took me off statins and my aches and pains retired...

MDs consider statins a silver bullet due to drug companies pushing them as a fix all for any type of cardio symptom. Drug companies think that they are a cash cow. In fact statins are anything but. There are a small number of cases where they are actually a good diagnosis but the problem is they are way over prescribed. That you had the symptoms you described should have told any competent medical expert that statins were not the correct treatment. Your symptoms are very common and means that the statins are working against your body chemistry, not with it. After three months I was well on the way to disability and after I came off them it took another seven months to recover fully. Now I lead an active lifestyle with none of the old symptoms that statins gave me.

Cholesterol is one of the most misunderstood chemicals in our body. In reality there is no such thing as "good" and "bad" cholesterol. They are chemicals constantly being produced by your body to combat inflammation and are in a balance at all times depending on your bodies quiescent state. In very rare circumstances the body overproduces one or the other in which case statins may bring them back into balance but this is very rare and not the case in most situations where they are prescribed. What happens then is that the statin disturbs the natural balance in your body and causes the symptoms you describe. There is no such thing as a correct level of LDL/HDL it depends on your bodies state at the time. The way this works is that statins can suppress the production of the cholesterol that is used to combat inflamation and when this happens the bodies inflamation grows unchecked hence the symptoms you describe.

How do I know this? My wife is a medical scientist and done an extensive study into the operation of statins on the bodies metabolism.

The Catalyst report last year was and excellent and unbalanced investigation into the issues. The problem was that instead of dealing with the very serious issues raised the detractors aimed their sights on the messenger and thus the message was suppressed. The whole handling of the Catalyst investigation was shameful.

John

[Evanism]

A fellow woodworker here is a scientist. He came around a couple of weeks back and we were talking. I don't remember exactly what his particular skill is (I think it's nutritional biologist at UC) , but something he did say rang true.... Science is based on observation, repeated testing and constant challenge. It is not a static thing. Understanding changes. New methods are found. The Big Picture is slowly coloured in.

What he said was simple in that we, mere ordinary mortals, don't understand real science or the scientific method. We try, but we don't.

We talked of climate change (not this threads topic, but the idea is the same) and discussed how people are picking and choosing what science to "believe". As if it were a choice of ideas. Some deny climate change science while embracing, say, tectonics or evolution or physics. We are choosing what science to believe based on feelings, opinions and a TV documentary (I saw the Quantum report. Demasi was very convincing).

We need to be sceptical of all claims, but it seems reasonable to support the scientists when they say "such and such is bad based on current understanding".

Statins are very very interesting.

I had an "event" 2 years ago. Well, it turned out to be nothing other my overactive imagination, but I did have a VERY good chat with the cardiologist at the hospital. He was saying that it is now believed that the fats we eat have no role what so ever in cardiological health or outcomes. They will still make you fat - but they in themselves won't give you a bum ticker. It's more complex.

Intriguing! One man saying so doesn't make it a truth, but it was damned interesting to hear a bloke like him saying such a heresy.

One last thought. My local GP is a "man doctor". Super smart, takes no crap.... he SEES your lies.... He hits me all the time with the same things:

-- Give up the grog
-- Walk daily
-- Get more sleep
-- Drink more water
-- Loose weight

Follow this and 90% of your problems literally evaporate.

True!

[artme]

I think that one of the keys to good health or at least good treatment is to take responsibility for your your own wellbeing. Doctors are not magicians, they can only give advice or prescribe medicine based on what they are told plus what they are able to observe and it is wise to challenge them, not simply accept what is delivered.
I expect that many doctors become disheartened at constantly seeing their advice and guidance ignored; overweight patients, patients who smoke, drink to excess, eat the wrong diet - and I am sure much more! We could all be guilty of taking the path of least resistance if our advice and guidance was constantly ignored. Reading between the lines I think you are describing yourself as a person who has taken responsibility for your own wellbeing and are consulting and challenging experts who are helping you to stay healthy, not a bad thing!

What you say is true Alex but I am baffled by the doctor who said he would not refer me to a neurologist for the NPH and had the temerity to tell me it was part of getting old. This is patently garbage!!

The GP who wanted to change my Blood pressure medication regime was miffed and a bit peeved when I told him I would not take that action until consulting my cardio.

Why is there not more really relevant education and publicity concerning drug side effects?? Do the Pharmaceutical companies have the regulators in this country in their pockets??

I noted when we were in Canada and the States there was quite a deal of TV advertising by the pharmaceutical companies BUT the majority of the ad for any particular drug concentrated on side effects!!

Out here we are are lucky to get a fine print leaflet with many of the drugs.

I wonder if the medical profession is prepared to stand up for changes in legislation to give consumers more information and therefore more protection.

[snowyskiesau]

One last thought. My local GP is a "man doctor". Super smart, takes no crap.... he SEES your lies.... He hits me all the time with the same things:

-- Give up the grog
-- Walk daily
-- Get more sleep
-- Drink more water
-- Loose weight

Follow this and 90% of your problems literally evaporate.

True!

Totally agree! My doctor told me nearly 2 years ago that to address the type 2 diabetes, exercise and diet would do more for any pills she could prescribe. She also accurately observed that is if she loaded me up with prescriptions, I wouldn't come back. No one was more surprised than she, when I eventually took her advice and I lost weight after starting to watch what I eat and exercising.

The lost weight and increased fitness not only helped with blood sugar levels but I feel so much better, I can spend the day working outside without needing to take rest breaks. (tea breaks only)
Now being too tired is not a valid excuse for all the unfinished projects in the shed

[doug3030]

Why is there not not more really relevant education and publicity concerning drug side effects?? Do the Pharmaceutical companies have the regulators in this country in their pockets??

I noted when we were in Canada and the states there was quite a deal of TV advertising by the pharmaceutical companies BUT the majority of the ad for any particular drug concentrated on side effects!!

Out here we are are lucky to get a fine print leaflet with many of the drugs.

Probably 20 years ago my father-in-law was put into hospital and was not making any progress. Nobody knew what was wrong with him. His own regular GP was treating him in the hospital.

When he had been there for nearly a week his doctor went away for three weeks holiday and the hospital got another doctor to look in on him. This doctor discovered that the FIL was taking over 20 different medications a day. He said that it looked like most of the medications he was taking were to treat side-affects of the others but he had no way of telling which was which until he found out what was actually wrong with him.

He ordered that the FIL take no more medication and kept him under close observation. Long story short, after 48 hours they were able to work out what medication he needed and what he did not need. He finished up on three medications and none of them were the same as what he was on before. He was out of hospital within another week, became healthier than he had been for years and lasted over 10 years longer.

Cheers

Doug

[alexm1]

Artme, there are some doctors that put things down to age, on occasions I expect they are correct but I suspect that it often reflects their own shortcomings.
Re the drug side effects: there are sheets available called "consumer medicine information". These sheets are available on line and include the uses of the subject drug, when you can and cannot take the drug (lists interaction with other drugs for example), side effects, over dose info etc. I am looking at one such sheet at the moment for Methoblastin, it is 5 A4 sheets of information, almost one full page on side effects alone. My rheumatologist put me onto these some years ago and I have since downloaded them for various drugs. I can't say for a fact that they are available for all drugs.

[Chesand]

The pharmacist can also provide "Consumer Medication Information" sheets if not in the carton. Just ask when you collect your medication.

[Chris Parks]

Nothing annoys me more than a doctor insisting that exercise and weight loss is a necessity when that same doctor is clearly overweight and does no exercise. Following open chest surgery to address a non heart condition I have gone through a long period of debillitating lack of stamina and shortness of breath. None of the so called experts has any idea of what is causing and I have gained a huge amount of weight due to the lack of exercise. What I have found is that medicos seem to have tunnel vision and a lack of willingness to listen and maybe do some thinking of their own instead of following the medical herd. I saw my father fire a doctor during a ward visit and it caused a hell of a ruckus.

[sacc51]

The most common side effect of statins is muscle pain and some 30% of people on statins experience that pain. I find this curious now because when my GP diagnosed me with PMR a few months ago and prescribed prednisone he kept me on statins, advised me to take ibufrofen for pain and also kept me on aspirin, since then my research has revealed ibuprofen and aspirin should not be taken with prednisone. I have since stopped taking ibuprofen, aspirin and also stopped statins to see if that is the cause of the pain; but, if I do experience any pain relief I'm still stuck on prednisone for a good while trying to wean off it.

Recently I also came down with urticaria, interestingly I found just recently that ibuprofen/aspirin can cause or trigger urticaria. Sometimes I think you are playing Russian roulette when consulting GPs.

The specialist believes the urticaria is more than likely triggered by one or more of the medications I am on and suggested i delete them one by one to find out if one is indeed causing the problem. Nay said I, I will stop all, if the urticaria is relieved I may introduce the medications one at a time to see which one is causing the problem. However, I'm thinking of not restarting any of the meds again as they were prescribed as a precautionary measure due to diabetes; realistically though, I think it's just a matter of trading one problem for another.

Unfortunately the medical profession seem to keep changing their mind and no two agree: not too long ago it was suggested that a higher BP was a normal result of getting older and caused no significant ill effects, now they're telling us BP over 120/80 increases risks dramatically. I await with baited breath the medical profession's next backflip.

[artme]

Too true Sacc51.

Just a bit more grist for the mill:

I have an acquaintance with hypertension. Lost weight, got fit changed drugs and nothing works - but it's his fault!

My wife has unstable blood pressure and one bloody doctor told her she had high BP, wanted right or wrong to put her on a regime she had been taken off by the cardio!

Ana had some clotting problems at one stage and these were treated by a vascular specialist . Part of the treatment was a long period on Warfarin. The problem was resolved
some years ago but she has been advised never to take long haul flights. Any flights over 3hour require Fragmin injections. The first ever so knowledgeable and arrogant doctor
we saw on coming to Hervey Bay was very adamant that Ana should be on Warfarin forever and was critical of the specialist. This was the same arrogant character who did not
refer me to a neuro surgeon.

People like this should not be allowed to practice! I was going to lodge a complaint about him on several ground but I guess the AMA would have protected him, or some smart lawyer.
My word against his and all that.

[sacc51]

Hope that doctor's name wasn't Ikram. When I lived in Hervey Bay (2006-2010) he was my GP, brilliant! I saw my GP yesterday regards going off all meds to see which one is causing the urticaria. He didn't want me to go of any of them and when I explained living with urticaria and PMR was not pleasant he wasn't persuaded. When I suggested he try, for just one day, living without the use of his hands and being incredibly itch 24/7 he relented a little but wouldn't budge on the minpress, saying once started you can't stop for fear of stroke. I find this extraordinary that someone would prescribe something you can never come off and not tell you, I check all meds prescribed now. My current GP wasn't the one who originally scripted me for these drugs BTW, he's one of the better ones I've had - Ikram being by far the best.

[pjt]

On the urticaria thing I watched a doco/film about Joe, an Aussie guy who had a few health issues, he was on a bunch of meds for this and that which he ditched and changed his whole lifestyle including a radical change to his diet, his urticaria cleared up and a whole range of benefits came from the change, google "fat sick and nearly dead" for a look.


Pete

[sacc51]

Urticaria has cleared up, a combination of stopping statins and changing BP meds along with ultra violet treatment and pinestarsal soap did the trick, no idea which one and don't really care but won'be going back on statins again or use soap again. The net is chockas full of 'alternative' treatment for everything from cancer to a simple cough, what works for one won't necessarily work for another, it's a matter of working your way through them. Some of the 'magical cures for urticaria include. deleting gluten and dairy and that seems to work for a lot of people. Fortunately, my urticaria has cleared up and I now have RA to address, a losing battle there though I think. Some have found removing gluten from the diet seems to help a little, not easy to do though as gluten is in almost everything. So for me it looks like never having full use of my hands again!