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Thread: Router Bits

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default Router Bits

    Had an interesting return the other day.

    A customer sent in a 6mm 2 flute straight bit, with Triton router 12 mm collet and 6 mm reduction sleve. (Japanese sizing)

    Problem, the bit rises when being used.

    Tried it out and sure enough, within 120 to150 mm the bit had risen drastically.

    Tried with a number of collets and sleeves, always with the same result.

    Next tried with a similar Makita bit. No problem.

    Could leave the story here, but won't.

    To test the shank of the problem bit needed a micrometer.

    Measured 5.98mm at the top, and in one crossection on the bottom, measured 5.96mm.

    After contacting Carb-i-tool, Triton, a Japanese importer and retailer of bits and the importer and distributor of the problem bit, found the following that some forum members may find interesting.

    1. Sleeves do not grip as tightly as collets. Not a design fault, just an inherrant condition when using sleeves. Hence, the sme bit did not slip when used in a laminate trimmer.

    2. Carb-i-tool's tolerances were prety tight. The three variables to watch for are total diameter, acceptable to -.03mm. Tapering of the shank, acceptable to only .01mm from top to bottom and roudness, didn't get a tolerance here, but they implied it was vital.

    This led me to thought of the differences between expensive and cheap bits.

    After visiting the Sydney WWW show, I visited the Carb-i-tool factory and was given a guided tour. Have since done a bit of reading.

    There are 2 main methods of producing bits. Casting the bit, or machining it from a solid steel rod. Machined bits are better.

    Another point with TCT bits is the size of the powder that the TCT is made from. (We are talking about 1 micron and less here) As a bit wears, particles break off from the edge. The smaller the particles, the less effect it has on the cutting edge.

    I don't know enough about the machining technology to comment on that part of the process.

    The breaking strength is also a factor. In days cone by, a 15 ton breaking strength was fine. Carb-i-tool now make their bits with a 70 ton breaking strength. This is mainly because bits are now used in CMC machines that keep pushing even when the bits get dull.

    Getting back to our level. The bigger the shank the better. If tossing up between a 1/4" and a 1/2" bit, go the 1/2".

    HSS and TCT bits. I am one of many who after starting with a set of HSS bits, threw them away after trying my first TCT bit.

    HSS bits have their place though. Hss bits can be machined to an angle of about 7 degrees, whereas TCT can only be machined to an angle of around 15 degrees. Apparantly, some quality woodworkers prefer HSS, because they can get a better edge, and they can sharpen them themselves. I won't be so quick to rubbish them in future.

    Steve
    (No, I do not work for Carb-i-tool either! Was very impressed with their bits and production and am more than happy to publicly recommend them.)

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Funnily enough, I was just about to ask about this problem myself, having observed exactly the rise you describe yesterday afternoon, using a 1/4 inch Carbitool straight bit held by a 1/4 inch reduction sleeve in the Triton router. I've seen it to a small degree before, but thought it was the router itself slipping because I hadn't locked in the height. This time I had the bit almost eject itself (phew!) despite further tightening the collet. I don't see the rise using much cheaper no-name 1/4 inch bits even though the shanks are not much more than half the length, so at the moment I blame the sleeve/Carbitool combination.

    Fortunately the job I want to do at the moment doesn't require such a small bit so I can use my 1/2 inch straight cutter with 1/2 inch shank, but from what you're saying I guess I'll eventually need to buy a 1/2 inch shank 1/4 inch straight bit.
    Carsten

  4. #3
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    Default

    I've had this problem using a CMT 1/4" spiral up-cut in the triton with the 1/4" reduction collet. did a few plunge cuts, put the router on the bench and when I picked it up again the bit fell out!
    If I do not clearly express what I mean, it is either for the reason that having no conversational powers, I cannot express what I mean, or that having no meaning, I do not mean what I fail to express. Which, to the best of my belief, is not the case.
    Mr. Grewgious, The Mystery of Edwin Drood - Charles Dickens

  5. #4
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    Default

    THis is why i only buy 1/2 inch router bits

  6. #5
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    Default

    I am having the same problem with my 1/4 inch bits and thought it was something wrong with my process. I feel better to know that it isnt a problem with my technique. As I have to replace bits I have been replacing 1/4 with 1/2 so at least this will fix the problem. I love this forum.
    It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

  7. #6
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    Aug 2003
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    Perth, WA
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    Default

    Does your collet have 3 slots?
    Triton replaced the original 3 slot collet with a 4 slot collet.
    The 3 slot collet caused vibration and the bit could come loose.
    The 4 slot collet fixed the problem.

    Growing old is much better than the alternative!

  8. #7
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    Default

    I've only got the 3 slot collet. I'll shoot Triton/GMC an email.
    If I do not clearly express what I mean, it is either for the reason that having no conversational powers, I cannot express what I mean, or that having no meaning, I do not mean what I fail to express. Which, to the best of my belief, is not the case.
    Mr. Grewgious, The Mystery of Edwin Drood - Charles Dickens

  9. #8
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    Default 4 slot sleeve

    The sleeve that has the best grip that Triton has produced to date is one that has 4 grooves that cut all the way through the sleeve. 2 starting from the top and the other 2 starting from the bottom.

    This change in design made a great difference in the grip of the smaller bits.

    It was using one of these improved sleeves that the problem bit in question raised its head and highlighted the severity of the tolerances required for these bits.

    Steve

  10. #9
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    Finally got my act together and emailed Triton when I needed to use a 1/4" bit again. Got a response the next day and received a replacement reduction collet in the mail. The collet has more slits than the original and a circlip to stop it dropping down in the 1/2" collet. Works like a charm
    If I do not clearly express what I mean, it is either for the reason that having no conversational powers, I cannot express what I mean, or that having no meaning, I do not mean what I fail to express. Which, to the best of my belief, is not the case.
    Mr. Grewgious, The Mystery of Edwin Drood - Charles Dickens

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