Bowl Saver MAX

[brendan stemp]

I thought this might be of interest for some.
https://youtu.be/J-Brxc3c3bM

[Phily]

Hi Brendan, just wondering what speed you were running at? I have an earlier version of the saver; a great tool and relatively easy to use. The reason for asking about speed is chatter avoidence. Not sure if chatter is inherent with this type of tool, if its a lathe or human speed issue, or perhaps technique. The chatter is more offputting than problematic, but would be nice to eliminate.
Cheers
Phil

[bench1holio]

Nice video Brendan.
It looks like a big improvement on the smaller woodcut bowl saver, although I would love to see another video of you doing that dry burl you held up in the end of the piece.

[NeilS]

Not sure if chatter is inherent with this type of tool...

Some vibration (and noise) with the tip at full extension is to be expected, but to the extent that you would call it chatter seems excessive. Perhaps something in your rig is not fully clamped down tight.

Phil, no doubt you have checked all the screw and clamp points in your rig, but maybe worth checking again.

As Brendan pointed out in his video, setting the cutting point right on centre height is also important.

I tend to run my lathe at faster speeds than recommend, but do lighter cuts to help my 1.5hp lathe manage the task on the large cuts.

Keeping you tips sharp and at the recommended profile is another important factor in getting an efficient cut. It is a scraping tool that becomes a plough as soon it becomes blunt.


Stay sharp!

Neil

[Phily]

As Brendan pointed out in his video, setting the cutting point right on centre height is also important
Neil

Why do I get so blind to the blindingly obvious )-: or in this case, the bindingly obvious!! The penny started to drop on reflection of Brendan's video where he adjusted the blade by a few mm part way through the cut. Then your comment Neil, on centre height smacked me in the jaw. Of course. This is a deep cutting scraper with an engineered shape designed to cut perfectly at the centre height. If its not exactly centred the blade will bind!

I had been cutting at centre height, 'give or take a little bit'. Obviously this is not a circumstance for taking a casual measurement. Trying to complete the save in one cut (ie. Not undertaking a clearing cut) I have been compounding the binding issue.

No wonder I got chatter. Lucky it wasn't even worse!!

Thanks Neil

[Willy Nelson]

Great video,
My comments, if I may, hopefully, I don't offend too much, in order of appearance.

1. I thought the use of the chainsaw was at times a little dangerous (IMHO), the plunge cut and cutting the wings off.

2. Brendan needs a haircut! . What speed was the lathe, would a little faster have cut better?

3. The kerf of the bowl saver was, in my opinion quite wide, I gave this a fair amount of thought and I still can't imagine why the OEM made it so wide.

4. Wasn't keen on the idea of having to shift the bowl saver sideways to open the cut, I thought that should be unnecessary, especially given the width of the kerf. Others I have used, I can't recall doing that

5. I am in the market for a bowl saver, have been for a couple of years and have used the old wood cut system. I do like the Oneway, but at $1,000+, I will seriously think about the Max.

6. Would love to have seen the Red gum burl and the bowl saver, I am sure that would test it. Was the coring of the burl recorded?

7. Lastly, random fact. Stellite is widely used in the manufacture of .50 cal gun barrels as a liner to improve wear resistance. The barrels are lined only as Stellite is very expensive

Great video overall, and timely as I have just scored a trailer load of very large Camphor Laurel and another of Cape Lilac.
Well Done
Sincerely
Willy
and Brendan, get a haircut

[NeilS]

4. Wasn't keen on the idea of having to shift the bowl saver sideways to open the cut, I thought that should be unnecessary, especially given the width of the kerf. Others I have used, I can't recall doing that

In my experience, opening up the kerf a bit helps with shaving clearance, especially on the deeper cuts. I do it as standard practice.

The cutter width is determined by the bar width and depth and that is determined by the depth of cut (ie the overhang between the tip and support point). Any narrower and the bar is going to bind somewhere.

As for Brendan's hair length, I would love to have enough hair to have it that long!

Stay sharp!

Neil

[ronboult]

I am afraid I have to agree with Willy regarding the chainsaw operation. Some of what was shown could be ( is ) quite dangerous and I have to question including it in a public video.

I am also in the market for a Bowl Saver.

I think the Oneway is the best available (that I have found) but it is quite ( Extremely!!) expensive and suffers from the problem that the shape of the core is fixed to roughly a semicircle just like the woodcut. It however uses relatively cheap replaceable cutters that can also be resharpened many times and which cut a wider kerf than the blade hence less binding. There are several YouTube videos demonstrating its use. If you turn semi professionally or use expensive wood it would soon pay for itself.

If one wants a flexible system that can cut other than semi-circle bowls then have a look at the Ken McNaughton system but it does seem to require more skill to use that the Oneway.

I don't know of any agent for the Oneway in Au so shipping also adds significantly to the cost.
Ron

[NeilS]

Besides the cost, another downside of the Oneway is the extra time that system takes to complete a cut with the frequent adjusting of the secondary support arm.

Not a significant factor if you are only doing an occasional core, but that discounts the argument in its favour that it will quickly pay for itself.

The Woodcut produces a similar style core and will be quicker and cheaper for us here.

And, yes, as Ron points out, the McNaughton is more flexible in its range of core shapes, but has a steeper learning curve. By the time you have mastered it you will have paid for it in cores saved, but also in sweat and tears...☺

I started with the Woodcut and that was a good place to start. When I moved over to the McNaughton I had no trouble selling the Woodcut and recovering enough of my investment in that to make the move without too much financial pain.

Stay sharp!

Neil

[ronboult]

The Oneway seems to provide more support for the cutting arm than the woodcut and from what I have seen cuts quicker and smoother with less chatter. The demos seem to show only one or two adjustments needed for the support and in one of the videos the turner had replaced the adjusting nuts with permanently attached handles. There are also 4 sizes of cutter available for the Oneway, great if you turn large bowls.

I will probably buy one set of Oneway cutting arm and support arm ( each size is sold seperately ) and make my own base. Will save shipping weight and cost from US

Will try and write a review when I get to try one out.
Ron

[Woodturnerjosh]

The Oneway seems to provide more support for the cutting arm than the woodcut and from what I have seen cuts quicker and smoother with less chatter. The demos seem to show only one or two adjustments needed for the support and in one of the videos the turner had replaced the adjusting nuts with permanently attached handles. There are also 4 sizes of cutter available for the Oneway, great if you turn large bowls.

I will probably buy one set of Oneway cutting arm and support arm ( each size is sold seperately ) and make my own base. Will save shipping weight and cost from US

Will try and write a review when I get to try one out.
Ron

I was going to do the same thing but I had a friend bring a system back for me (woohoo, free freight) and having used a Kelton for years and a good look at the Max I think the Oneway is the best system (for me anyway). If you want to know post diameters, etc send me a message (it might be a while before I have time to measure everything though)

[Woodturnerjosh]

Besides the cost, another downside of the Oneway is the extra time that system takes to complete a cut with the frequent adjusting of the secondary support arm.

Not a significant factor if you are only doing an occasional core, but that discounts the argument in its favour that it will quickly pay for itself.

As Glenn Lucas uses this system to core out a few hundred bowls a week I would hardly say it's slower than the others. If you rough out all your outside profiles and then core them out in lots I actually find it faster, more consistent and more predictable than the Kelton. With a simple spacer I know the exact shape of the core before the knife even touches the blank.

[NeilS]

As Glenn Lucas uses this system to core out a few hundred bowls a week I would hardly say it's slower than the others. If you rough out all your outside profiles and then core them out in lots I actually find it faster, more consistent and more predictable than the Kelton. With a simple spacer I know the exact shape of the core before the knife even touches the blank.

Experience speaks louder than mere speculation, Josh. As you have used both the Oneway and the McNaughton, I defer to your judgement on this!

I would hardly core several hundred in most years, let alone in any week, so the cost of a Oneway doesn't quite stack up for me at this stage, but it may do so for others, particularly if they have not already invested in another system.

Stay sharp!

Neil

[Woodturnerjosh]

When it comes to production bowl turning and output I'm not sure he's 100% human! lol

I cored out about 300 last year with the Kelton (they are still drying under the house at the moment) and I was looking at the bowlsaver MAX as I wanted to take larger cores than the standard Kelton system with more uniformity. If I didn't have access to free freight I wouldn't have bought the Oneway. The base with the three smaller knives (I can't see a need for the largest one) still cost $1000 AUD and weighed 23kg

For smaller quantities the Kelton is easily faster (once you're used to it)

[ronboult]

Hi Woodturnerjosh
thanks for the offer regarding the size of the base. I would normally just buy the base but shipping from the USA has become extremely expensive and the base appears to be made out of significant hunks of steel.
If I was going to buy just one coring set to try would you recommend the smallest or second smallest model?
Ron