Model T Ford Restoration - Timber for Floor and Door Frames

[QldWoodie]

Father-in-Law, vintage car buff is starting restoration of Model T, said car containing lots of timber componentry in the frames, whose machining and shaping is responsibility of yours truly.

The last car we did this on (a plymouth) we made the floor out of flooded gum and the other parts (wheel arch supports, dashboard support, internal door frames etc) out of crows ash. The Model T on the other hand has lots more timber in it, and besides, we're out of crows ash.

My simple view is that probably any straight grained timber would be OK (none of it is visible in the completed car), and on this basis I would probably use silver ash mainly because I like working in silver ash. A colleague of F-I-L has suggested hickory (actually, pecan - member of hickory family, I think). I can't identify the timber used in the original ... far too weathered and rotted ... but someone has suggested it is American Ash (not American OAK) -- I am not familiar with American Ash, and in any case the timber has completely failed in quite a few places separate to the obvious rotting out and weathering, so I wouldn't say the original timber was necessarily the thing to go for anyway.

The collective wisdom of the board would nevertheless be appreciated.

Qw

[Andy Mac]

Hi Qw,
I'd love to say Coachwood but difficult to get hold of, although maybe Lazarides have some. For an experienced answer, maybe contact the Cobb & Co Museum in Toowoomba, as they have people restore wagons and carriages. No, not the same, but similar joinery and stresses would be comparable. I think the Eucalypt option is probably more realistic.

Cheers,

[QldWoodie]

thanks Andy Mac,

I haven't worked with coachwood much - unfriendly wood, dust is toxic. Presumably coachwood got its name because they used to make coaches out of it, but do you know what particular attributes it has/had to be selected for this role.

Also, the wood is mostly used as frames around which the metal parts are shaped -- the metal being tacked to the wood on the inside not unlike what an upholsterer does. So you don't need a hard wood that polishes up well but rather a softer wood that can handle lots of tacks. On the other hand, moisture inside door frames and the like suggests something fairly weather-resistant.

Qw

[david kirby]

i would recomend qld maple from d&I KIRBY for durability and workability e mail [email protected] thanks davo

[Robert WA]

US and Canadian timbers are available in Australia.

Why not go to a Ford T model site, I imagine there are 100s of them, and find out what timber old Henry used. Given his philosophy as to price, it will have been common and cheap. It may still be available.

[ptc]

QW
try the Riley Club Qld
Riley's had a lot of timber in them.
They do a lot of restoration work.

[Robert WA]

Everything is on the net in the US, and if someone wants something there will be someone supplying it. You can buy the wooden components of a Ford model T.
http://www.fordwood.com/

[Auld Bassoon]

Hi QLDWoodie,

Ash is what all the vintage & veteran car makers used for the "coachbuilt" bodies.

It could be moulded (dry or with steam), laminated into shape, etc, and was generally fairly rot-resistant.

For a latter-day exponent of this art form, see Rod Jolley's site (http://www.rodjolley.com/flash/workshop.html) - a world-reknowned fettler of fine cars...<insert big sloppy drooling emoticon here>

Cheers!

[barryr]

Ash is the good stuff mate , Model-T's were made that long ago you can't really go by the condition of the original stuff !

You can get it in Queensland at Teak and Fancy Timbers (Woodworld)
http://www.woodworld.com.au/timber_types.htm

Bazz

[Gra]

Woo Hoo something I know about....

Gotta love the wonderful world of car restoration. my personal interest is in Graham Paige's (see here).

The US based sites would probably be using the wrong wood, as they would be using what was used in the US not what was used here. What sort of body does it have (Imported or Geelong?), What model T have you got.

We used generic hardwood in our two cars, but have found Ash, Oregon (Yes), and others. The Hardwood has the drawback of being heavier, but it is also strong, the only thing We have replaced in the last 20 years were the chipboard floor boards.

When travelling through Tasmania a couple of years ago, the wood guys down there were telling us they used huon in Tasmania as it was strong, light and resisted insects (Would be great for a special).

let us know how you go and Were are the pics...

[QldWoodie]

Thanks, Everybody.

Yes, this site sure does have some wisdom (even if one has to occasionally put up with a bit of s?#t). Ash is looking good.

.... find out what timber old Henry used. Given his philosophy as to price, it will have been common and cheap. It may still be available.

This is part of the problem. Old Henry apparently used some pretty poor quality timberwork --- not evidenced by its failure to last 70 years which it surely wasn't ever designed to do, but evidenced by the el-cheapo way some of the timber was joined in the frames etc. not to mention split at the time of manufacture. On some of the work we will be laminating curved pieces where Henry just butt-jointed.

yep - we knew you could/can buy just about any part (manufactured NEW) for a model T in the USA, and you can also buy fully restored cars too. But car restoration is about the journey not the destination, so making the parts is the way for us to go! Besides, (F-I-L's logic) to buy them it would be HIM that would have to part with the $'s ... if I make them it doesn't cost him a cent! ( .... and next time I want some metal fabrication work done in my shop .... )

Qw

[Gra]

Just remember when you cut out the doors, you cant save time and cut out two at the same time, We still have a spare passenger side rear door...

As for the laminating, which part are you talking about, I know the rear wheel arches are usually jointed, whereas we just used a wide board and cut it down to suit, so our wheelarches are one peice, this is then m & T'd to the main lower beam and the rear cross peice.

Neil

[QldWoodie]

Just remember when you cut out the doors, you cant save time and cut out two at the same time, We still have a spare passenger side rear door...

Yes, Neil .... I've fallen for this trap before. LH, RH, mirror image etc. The last car we worked on I made a curved frame with trapezoidal cross section to support the bonnet - fitted at the point where the bottom of the windscreen meets the bonnet. Only problem - it curved downwards not upwards. Magnificent piece of work it was too. When I re-made it I was much more careful.

As for the specifics of how to make the pieces and which pieces to laminate or not .... I havn't actually seen the car for about a year (it is in Gympie, I am in Brisbane) when we pulled some panels out to check the state of the woodwork. But from our previous efforts we found the extra work for us hobbiests at least to laminate curved pieces is often worth it if you've got the time, even if this is not the way the original car was built.

Qw

[Greg Q]

Just for general interest's sake, I grew up across the river from Detroit, and remember this area covered in Ash trees years ago. No doubt Henry got whatever was cheapest/most plentiful, and Ash would have fitted the bill nicely.

Here's the thing: About three years ago a pest was introduced via some imported pallet that is attacking all of these trees. Already in southwestern Ontario Ash is under quarantine, all of it is to be burned, (some million and a half tonnes last year). Apparently this bug is going to infect and destroy all of the trees in the mid-west eventually.

I used to think the quarantine laws were a bit over the top here. I don't think that now.

Greg

[Auld Bassoon]

Here's the thing: About three years ago a pest was introduced via some imported pallet that is attacking all of these trees. Already in southwestern Ontario Ash is under quarantine, all of it is to be burned, (some million and a half tonnes last year). Apparently this bug is going to infect and destroy all of the trees in the mid-west eventually.

I used to think the quarantine laws were a bit over the top here. I don't think that now.

Greg

Hi Gregoryq

What a terrible pity! Can't it be felled and treated - at least there would be some use rather than just being burnt