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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    California, USA
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    Default Adria gone rusty HELP

    I recently went on break and when i came back, i found my adria dovetail saw (that i've never used) and my two japanese plane irons (also never used) to be in a very rusty state.

    for the adria saw, the rust starts after the plastic blade guard (doesn't go under it) and heads up the blade only on that one side. The rust on the plane irons is on both sides of the tip.

    I figured for the plans i could probably just sharpen them to remove the rust?

    but for the adria i'm not sure. I read all the threads about rust on the forums but wanted some individual input before i mess up my hundred dollar saw (mess it up more rather)
    thanks a lot


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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Japan。
    Age
    49
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    1,622

    Default

    Oops!

    Firstly, you are not going to have a perfect saw again. Now that the shock has set in, here's what I would do.

    You could either hit it with a rust converter (hydrochloric acid based), or rub it out using an oil and some abrasive.

    Using the rust converter will leave a black stain there forever, but it shouldn't 'rust' again, the black stain is a form of rust however, just a stable version of it. Rub off the scaly stuff first, apply rust stuff, rub it back with an oiled steel wool pad.

    Rubbing it out might give you a nicer finish, but you might affect how the saw works because you will remove material from one side. Wouldn't be a problem if it was near the blade's back, but down there, thick is better. If you go this route, oil with steel wool (#0-#000/0000) or wet and dry (#400-#1200) should take care of it.

    Either way, the fix is going to permanently affect the saw in some way. Either cosmetic or in how it 'might' work.

    As I use tools rather than look at them, I'd use rust converter, then take off most of the stuff so I have a saw that works, even if it's not as pretty as it should be.

    And next time, make sure the poor thing won't rust again. Will save it and reduce your stress levels.

    Seems to me that almost anything with lanolin in it and is designed to stop rust works well. I have some stuff here that fits that MO, and it works great with the massive humidity swings we get around here.

    Sorry to see it, but no point getting too upset. Doesn't change the fact that it's a nice saw.

    Plane blades, just sharpen them up. Works for me.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sth. Island, Oz.
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    64
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    754

    Default

    I'd recommend phosphoric rather than hydrochloric acid. The former is used as a gentler but effective rust converter on old tin rooves etc. Make sure you wear gloves, and use a good, new, coarse Scotcbrite or equiv. pad instead of any nasty, overly abrasive metallic substance that will dull and erode your expensive steel. Wattyl market it as Phoscote, but I'm sure any paint distributor will have an equivalent. Anyway, good luck with it. Sometimes it pays to stand back, shrug, and accept that it's just a flamin' tool that's not really worth getting upset about.

    Ps. The Japanese have had good luck protecting their tools with Camellia Oil for the last three thousand years or so. It's available from good quality hand tool retailers.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Thanks a lot guys, so far i've gotten the rust off of the plane blades and while i was at it, i learned how to sharpen the rest of my chisels which desperately needed it. I also coated everything with camelia oil so they're all happy.

    I'm still working on the adria though, honestly i'm probably never going to use it since i turned japanese right after getting it but its nice to have anyway. I'm having bad luck with it though because if you look at the pictures, the brass is tarnishing too, i can't figure out where to keep it that both rust and tarnish can't get to (the tarnish came when it was in the leather holder with my dozuki)

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Oakhurst, Sydney
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    48
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    384

    Default

    Look, if you want to get rid of the problems, just get rid of the Adria. Give it to me, and I'll relieve you of that hunk of rusty old steel. That's a win-win, isn't it?

    Cheers,
    GW
    Where you see a tree, I see 3 cubic metres of timber, milled and dressed.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Japan。
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    49
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    1,622

    Default

    Ratbag, yer prolly right about the acid. I am not 100% sure that hydro is right for rust. I know it strips gal off too, so I suspect it does work, albeit pretty aggresively.

    On the Camelia oil, I have 3/4 of a bottle I use to feed the fire. Doesn't do Jaques Schmidtt. Note my location, and why it's confusing that it doesn't do anything.

    I use a lanolin based stuff that's cheaper than camelia (and camelia is about 1/3 what you guys pay for it) and stops rust dead. Anything I spray it on will not rust, no matter what I do to try and help it form. Noting that where I am here is about as bad as it gets. Not too far from the sea, big temp and humidity swings, etc.

    Just an observation..

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Cornwall, UK
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Schtoo
    Rubbing it out might give you a nicer finish, but you might affect how the saw works because you will remove material from one side. Wouldn't be a problem if it was near the blade's back, but down there, thick is better. If you go this route, oil with steel wool (#0-#000/0000) or wet and dry (#400-#1200) should take care of it.
    I doubt thickness would be an issue; fine wet'n'dry wrapped round a wooden block (saw blade well supported) with some white spirit for lubrication would be my suggestion. If you're really in doubt, why not ask Eddie?

    For storage, wrapping it in rust inhibiting paper (which it probably came in?) would be most effective - next to using it.

    Cheers, Alf

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Land of fruits & nuts
    Posts
    24

    Default Have you ever tried electrolysis?

    5 gal. bucket (plastic) of water, (1/2 cup of sodium carbonate), pipe, and battery charger (I use a 1A motorcycle charger.). The pipe act as sacrificial electrodes, arranged in a circle, fastened along the edge of the bucket and connected with copper wire. Suspend the saw blade in the center and don't let it touch the pipe. I would think you can hang it so the handle does not get wet. Connect negative to saw blade (I use copper alligator clips) positive wire to the electrodes. Rust should go bye-bye.

    Note: this stuff bubbles hydrogen gas, yoo smokie...ka-blooyee! And, since you're working with electricity, use a GFCI circuit and don't get wet. There's no acid to deal with and it won't kill plants, but if you dump the residue on concrete, it's a mess to clean up!

    I rescued an old block plane. You should find how to do it on google, or find a chem. book at the liberry. Good luck! It's a nice saw, I've got one sans rust.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Northern Beaches
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    77
    Posts
    405

    Default Removing Rust

    Take a look at this thread
    http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ht=citric+acid

    The old Citric acid method never fails and it's fast and safe.

    1. 100 g in 5 litres
    2. Soak 12-24 hrs
    3. Dry with clean cotton rag
    4. Spay with WD40 or other thin water dispersing oil.
    5. Clean off excess with NEW rag and ... bingo!
    dave
    nothing is so easy to do as when you figure out the impossible.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sale
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    68
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    1,328

    Default

    I would have thought electrolysis would play havoc with the brass tip. Afraid I just use a rust converter to stop rust couldn't really be bothered keeping the surface shiny when wear fixes some spots and the converter the others. Fine wet and dry and the lanolin sounds like a good option on a decent tool like the adria.

    John.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    back in Alberta for a while
    Age
    68
    Posts
    12,006

    Default

    That's hardly any rust at all

    Hit it with some lemon juice, let it stand for say 30 mins, wipe off and then polish the blade with a silver polish.
    use the same polish on the brass back
    then oil the blade and brass back — camelia oil works fine and if you've turned Japanese you should have a few ounces lying arround.

    lastly drop me a PM and make an offer of what I need to pay to relieve you of the saw


    ian

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Northern Beaches
    Age
    77
    Posts
    405

    Default

    I'm a real butcher with anything abrasive and tend to score surfaces even with the finest grit. I think that your beautifully machined blade needs to be treated in the way it deserves to be treated - gently and least invasively as possible.

    I wouldn't recommend electrolysis on fine modern tools unless I knew their composition exactly. Read the threads on electrolysis for some of the horror stories.

    My religion says oranges and lemons only!
    dave
    nothing is so easy to do as when you figure out the impossible.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Port Sorell, TAS
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,633

    Default

    Check your PM Greensabbath
    The only way to get rid of a [Domino] temptation is to yield to it. Oscar Wilde

    .....so go4it people!

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