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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,810

    Default Towards the perfect dovetail/small tenon saw tote

    I’ve been wanting a small tenon saw for a while. Something smaller than my
    Disston #5 (which is 12" long). Something about the same size as my LN Independence
    dovetail saw (which has a blade of 9”) but filed crosscut and 15 tpi for
    more delicate, smoother shoulder cuts.

    About a year ago I made another of my derelict purchases, this time a Spear
    & Jackson tenon saw with 10" long x 2 1/4" deep blade. THT (Truly Horrible
    Tote)! Probably a product of the 1950-60 era. But the blade was in
    fair condition, heavy brass backing, and the teeth were filed as I wanted
    (and still sharp enough to cut). I put it aside until I had the time to work
    on it.

    Over the months that followed I began to think about the tote design. Here
    was a chance to design and build something that I found both aesthetically
    pleasing as well as comfortable.

    So what is the perfect dovetail or small tenon tote? I think the one that
    most of us associate is the LN, which was based on the Groves. Here they are ...

    <center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/LNandGrovesdovetailsaws.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

    It has always struck me that most totes look like they are flat boards with
    routed edges. I find this a turn-off. My LN is like constructed along these
    lines and, while it is comfortable, it looks machined. I want round, not
    flat. I want curves and flow. What do you want?

    So here is what I came up with. Firstly, a picture of the original tote and the complete saw for comparison. New tote is Jarrah.

    <center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/Tenonsawnewandold.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

    And here is a better angle for inspection.

    <center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/Tenonsawbothsides1.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

    I must say that this is the most comfortable tote I have ever used. Next step is to make the entire saw from scratch.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek Cohen

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Good job Derek. The new tote looks great.
    Regards,
    Ian.

    A larger version of my avatar picture can be found here. It is a scan of the front cover of the May 1960 issue of Woodworker magazine.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toowoomba Qld.
    Age
    64
    Posts
    2,792

    Default

    Hi Derek,
    That is a very sweet looking handle, and certainly looks comfortable enough! Nice one! Taking into account the style of work (fine dovetailing) and your obvious care with tools, those end pieces (curls, extensions, flourishes!??) that protrude from the handle will no doubt survive without chipping or snapping off (something that may have happened with transport to on-site work, and gradually disappeared from tool design) but they enhance the look of the tool no-end.
    Isn't the original one an awful looking bit of gear, doesn't inspire you to even pick it up, let alone use it carefully.

    Thanks for showing us your wonderful work once again.
    Andy Mac
    Change is inevitable, growth is optional.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon USA
    Posts
    496

    Default

    As always, very nice, Derek!

    Just goes to show how we as woodworkers can make our own beauty from something unlovable. The sense of joy and accomplishment ain't a bad reward, too.

    Take care, Mike

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    kyogle N.S.W
    Age
    50
    Posts
    4,844

    Default

    Very nice.

    I think the shape of those kind of totes are always interesting to look at. I think thats because the bodys so lean. Is strong despite it looking weak where it thins out there just before it links up to the blade....(that part have a name ? ...neck ? )

    I'm guessing you find it most comfortable, cause you able to shape it to fit your hand, yes ? As you shape gripping it in your hand,,,,etc.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    58
    Posts
    12,779

    Default

    Derek, how did you arrive at the handle angle? Is it based on an existing one or trial and error?
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,810

    Default

    Mike

    You MUST post some of your latest works here. I am not sure whether this forum actually is aware of the AWESOME saws you produce - and sell. Come on guys, take a look at this:
    http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/

    These are nothing less than works of art..

    <center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/Mikesml_jnry.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>


    Andy

    I agree, the original S&J was "awful". However, while the tote was really a product of mass production, the steel is first class, and the brass backing just tremendous. This is a very solid and heavy blade. And even better, these are commonly available in OZ, and cheap. I paid about $15 for this one. Of course, when you factor in that it took me a whole day to shape the replacement tote, then a good custom saw is really quite cheap at the price.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Tolmie - Victoria
    Age
    68
    Posts
    4,010

    Thumbs up

    Thanks for sharing that project with us Derek.
    - Wood Borer

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,810

    Default

    how did you arrive at the handle angle? Is it based on an existing one or trial and error?
    Silent, I started with an outline of the LN, partly to get dimensions right, and partly to get the angle the same. Then I refined the shape, as well as adding about 1/2" to the length and about 1/4" to the width.

    I learned a good tip from Mike, which I created a variation of (you will see why). To copy an old tote, he will slice it down the centre. This then sits flat and is easier to trace around. Obviously I didn't want to do this with my LN! So I traced the outline onto plywood, cut this out, and shaped it as a template for future use.

    I'm guessing you find it most comfortable, cause you able to shape it to fit your hand, yes ?
    Exactly Jake. It is interesting to find that the lower spur has an optimum angle - a couple of mm and it no longer digs into your wrist but, instead, supports it. Those upper and lower spurs are not just decoration - they offer support and provide a lot of comfort.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Turramurra, NSW
    Posts
    2,267

    Default

    Beautiful work Derek. I wish I had your skills and patience.
    Bodgy
    "Is it not enough simply to be able to appreciate the beauty of the garden without it being necessary to believe that there are faeries at the bottom of it? " Douglas Adams

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    East Bentleigh, Melbourne, Vic
    Age
    68
    Posts
    4,494

    Default

    Derek,

    Much as I like the look and feel of my LN Independence dovetail and carcass saws, I must agree that the more rounded shape that you have produced looks more elegant, and, quite possibly, is more comfortable.

    Now: the dimensions of my right mitt are....)

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    5,215

    Default

    Nice work and realy well made Derek. But nothing beats the straight handle of the Japanese saws for comfort and precise opperation in cutting delitate work, especially dovetails

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    East Bentleigh, Melbourne, Vic
    Age
    68
    Posts
    4,494

    Default

    The contrasting views regarding the pull saw and a straight handle, versus a European push saw and it's tote-style hande is an interesting one.

    As an amateur, but one who likes making hand cut joinery, I find that the LN dovetail saw provides a level of stiffness and cutting accuracy (ie once the cut is started, the line taken is the one that it will follow, whereas there is a tendency for the Dozuki to "meander") that I find hard to match with the (admittedly finer kerf) Japanese saw that I have.

    Probably it is just what I have become used to, but I love the look & feel of the LN saws.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    5,215

    Default

    Steve i dont mean the difference in saws but just the handle. While the western totes look awsome and as shown above are works of woodie art, but the simple nature of the straigth Jap handle that fits snug againsed the forearm and finger pointing straigt into the work feels so natural as apposed to the western tote

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    East Bentleigh, Melbourne, Vic
    Age
    68
    Posts
    4,494

    Default

    Lignum, even here, for me, I still prefer the handle of the tote, and with a forefinger pointed forward, feels totally natural for me - I can see my finger, and it's parallel to the top of the workpiece, which I find helps in achieving a flat botton to the cut right on the line on both sides, eg when cutting D.Ts or tenons.

    I guess the way a hand tool feels in one's hand is part of the enjoyment to be gained from them - like a nicely fashioned Beech-handled chisel versus a plastic one.

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