Does it have to be flat??

[TK1]

Hi,

I am in the count-down stages to starting boat-buiding (a real one this time, not a model). Plans have been narrowed down, suppliers sourced, tools purchased, enthusiasm heightened and a bulk order of tissues on the way for the inevitable tears or frustration!

The designs on the shortlist are unfortunately longer than my garage is, and we don't have a huge block of land. I have contemplated ripping out part of the back wall (still under consideration), building in the back yard (requiring a crane for removal at some point) or building elsewhere (cost more and inconvenient).

So, one prime piece of real estate is in front of the garage. Long and wide enough. The problem? Land slopes slowly upwards from the garage. Not a big slope, probably 1:8 - 1:10 or so. So, to the questeion...

Does the base of the boat building - strongback, jig, etc - need to be level? That's the idea, but as long as I can get frames square with the base-board, it should all end up square...as long as I'm careful. I have seen larger boats built on a beach or slip.

So any thoughts on building on a slight slope? Am I setting myself up to fail, or just adding another dimension to the challenge?

Thanks,
Darren

[Boatmik]

If it is all flat and perpendicular you can check any item as it goes in with a level - which makes life easier - I have to dash into town so this advice is not considered!

MIK

[Daddles]

All that needs to be flat is the strongback and then the frames themselves. You can build your boat on the side of a cliff if silly enough.

If you are doing it this way, fix the legs of the strongback to the ground - ie, bolt them into the concrete or, if dirt, dig them into the dirt. Then use a level to get the strongback dead flat - a water level (hosepipe full of water) is ace for this job, no need to go buying a laser unless you're into gadgets.

I used to build model aeroplane wings on a building board that had about a 2" woof in it but by making sure the wing was flat relative to gravity rather than to the board, all my wings were dead flat. Same with your boat.

You won't be able to move it but that's probably not a bad thing and you only need it dead flat while planking which, although it seems like the biggest part of the job, isn't by a long chalk.

Height. One side is going to be lower relative to your gut when standing next to it than the other (coz the land's sloping) ... or one end if going length wise. So think about the height carefully so you can reach everything without winding up looking like a yeti with a back problem after the low bits - sorry, only one plank will be at a convenient height but ... If you're keen and the slope is too severe, a working platform on the low side might help.

It can be done. It's no different to building on a normal shed floor - you can't assume the shed floor is flat and level so you'd have to do these checks anyway. The only difference is the amount you have to adjust things.

Richard

[graemet]

Darren,
The attached pic shows my 5.5m TS on the front yard which sloped at about 15 degrees. I drove 60mm square hardwood pegs into the ground and bolted the rails on for the building frame so that they were level with a spirit level both ways. When it was planked, one gunwale was at ground level, the other was about 600mm up. When the boat was finished, I had to hire a mobile crane to lift it up over the trees in the yard and down 6 metres to road level. In the total cost, the crane hire was miniscule, it cost more in travelling time than to do the job!
Cheers
Graeme

[Daddles]

And ye can build these things outside. Believe me, it rains in West Pennant Hills

Richard
suffered three years in Paramatta:eek:

[TK1]

Hi all,

Have no fear...it shall be flat!

After some judicious measuring, I've worked out I can build das boot behind my garage/workshop...boat is 6' wide and space is 8' wide, so tight but will have a door to the workshop, dead flat work area, and fence I can attach a tarp to in winter. Happy now!

And I think I've worked out how to remove it (that was my main reason for trying to build it on the driveway).

So once negotiations with SWMBO are concluded (liable to delay the project indefinately :mad: , but I'm constructing a solid argument )

Therefore now I can buy the plans, start the deck (to keep SWMBO ar bay - woould that be SWMBKAB - she who must be kept at bay??), get the building area done and full steam ahead for a start this summer.

Thanks for the advice anyway, but your comments did make me rethink the sloped work area, so invaluable.

Hey Graeme, if you don't mind me asking, and as it's one of my b
oat removal options,
how much did the crane cost??

Regards,
Darren

[onthebeachalone]

...base of the boat building - strongback, jig, etc

Couldn't quite find what I wanted on this thread, but this is somewhat related.

I'm on the point of starting the first of several projects, basically light, plywood boats, stitch & glue (or similar), built upright. LOA range from about 2 metres (yes, 2) to maybe 5.5 metres (max space in carport).

I'd like to set up a building frame that would do for all of them. First thought was to get some demolition timber but that could be pretty rough and crooked. Then I thought maybe some new floor joists (say 120-150 x 50 mm) but, being unsupported, these might warp significantly before I'm finished (might be years).

I'd be interested to know what others have used.

Oh! and cost is a consideration.

[graemet]

Hey Graeme, if you don't mind me asking, and as it's one of my b
oat removal options,
how much did the crane cost??

Regards,
Darren

It was a few years ago now, but all up (I think) about $80, $40 travelling time , $10 sling hire and $30 for 10 minutes work.
Cheers
Graeme

[Wild Dingo]

Darren you can build a boat pretty much anywhere (yeah there goes one of my mainstay avoidance techniques but I knew that when I started using it years ago just couldnt let it go )
I know of a bloke building a 50ft Peterson Coaster Schooner in the states in the space between his house and his neighbors... he gains access to the deck from his neighbors roof :eek:
Another bloke I know in Brazil is building a boat in what was the carport and its now taken over into the living room he has all of about 10in room along the sides of the hull and will have to dismantle the house to get it out... its his fathers house and father is in on it where the blazes the sheilas are is beyond me mine would be hissin an spittin to scare a zombie!
Another bloke built a catamarran on the rocks at the shore in England when finished just slid her down the slope into the drink easy as!
A bloke over here built a 30ft catamarran on his front lawn in suburbia! on a slope the outter hull ended up overlapping the roadway by some feet he just whacked some tape around it and kept going
Another bloke I know build a Roberts Mauritius in his backyard and had a shyte load of probs with the neighbors and shire council and then had to get permission to get a bloody great crane in to lift it over the house when the hull was done... ended up having to drag it south a few hundred klicks onto a mates property to finish it... a lot of travel and extra cost? sure but hes out there sailin now so it paid off
I also know a bloke who bein a right royal smartass thinking he knew it all and no one could tell him anything built a Caladonia Yawl in his living room... then had to take out the front window to get the thing out!! dipstick! but then he got it done too so for all the probs it was worth it in the end

As long as the actual building base is dead set level you will be right... it wont matter one whit if the ground slopes as long as you get the actual base that the frames will stand on dead level you will be right... build a ledge around the lower side to even your stance if you like I would cause I dont enjoy over reaching but then Im a shortass so it doesnt have to be to high for me to be over reaching

Remember to make sure theres enough walkway all the way around the board AFTER you start planking the hull... remembering that most frames will overlap the building board somewhat give yourself some leg room... its one of the major forgets of many boatbuilders legroom... so they get building the hull and suddenly they find what was just under 2ft of legroom has with the planking become 10in of legroom and theyre now serously phissed of cause theyre forever banging into the sodding hull... also remember that weather is seasonal so if you dont get it completed during spring and/or summer during the fine weather your efforts will get wet so remember a cover of some discription... preferably one that enables you to keep going even if its phissin down outside.

Another thing try not to build the boat outside your own yard as travelling to and from the building site can be the pits also theres power to be sourced tools to be fetched wood to be stored all potential probs... at least in your own yard either front or back you can see her every time you go near a window or out a door and you will be tempted to "just go do..." every chance you have.

One more... Try to have your boat building site situated close to the timber stack and your tools... this will save much heartache as you get into it and save your legs and arms while your at it timber no matter if ply or timber will get heavy as you start luggin lengths around... remember youve also got to lug it around the shed to cut it joint it scarf it etc THEN youve got to lug it to the boat for a checkup then back for more of the same etc... so try to think your building site through to lessen the walking from one area to the other... think close proximity to the site

She'll be right mate... and no doubt ol Mik will waltz in and give his now "considered" views... now hes had time to consider them that is! and by the way that daddles git up there? hes right on the money! strange that who would have thought he would get something right? Miricles eh!

Being small boats OTBA Id say build your building board on stumps or at least legs so your not forever bending way over... if you designed it right theres no reason why you couldnt build it with say 2 distinct building boards with a walkway between them but at the same time an all in one unit... somewhere or other Ive seen some pics of the setup Im thinking of I somehow think it may have been from a bloke in Norway or somewhere like that... anyway he had set his building boards up at hip level and had a walkway incorporated into the design so that there was 4ft of walkway between the hulls which was also the width from the hull form all round the building board... plenty of room!... and no matter where you walked around the hulls were never less than hip height so he could strip one side of both boats at the same time while a couple of mates would strip the other sides... all the setup was about 6in off the ground so you basically stepped up onto the platform and worked at hip height... great setup and worked

What about "building pine" from Bunnings? generally its straight and cheep... if not straight then straighten it out on the jointer and bobs yer uncle! Or what about going around to a house building site and asking the roofer if he minded you taking the "offcut" and left over lengths? usually theres several long lengths left over just ask they can only say no but usually dont give a rats phart... this stuff is great for building boards then again I have known blokes to go spend shyteloads on perfectly straight DAR timber and build it from that... more money than sence in my book but each to their own I think your much like me in this mate so the building sites would be the go!

Cheers
Shane

[Boatmik]

LOA range from about 2 metres (yes, 2) to maybe 5.5 metres (max space in carport).

I'd like to set up a building frame that would do for all of them.

A long chipboard box 5.5m long. Canoes you can go pretty narrow about a foot wide. Bigger dinghies maybe 450 wide.

Just use square section timber cleats across the top as attachments for bulkheads - you can move them to where you need them for each boat.

The nice thing is it takes up very little room.

Cheap? Depends.

MIK