Router, compound mitre saw, table saw, buy what first?

[Sturdee]

I've got an EZ Fasten ( Senco clone) frame nailer, Senco finishing nailer, Airy brad nailer and an EZ Fasten stapler.

All have its place but the two I use most are the framer and finishing nailers as up to now I've mainly been renovating. As I progress into making finer furniture I'll probably use the brad nailer and stapler more so it depends on what you want to do.

Peter.

[journeyman Mick]

If you are buying a bradder for building and renovation work get an angle bradder. That is, the magazine comes up at an angle rather than sitting at 90deg to the direction of nail drive. The straight bradders are fine for knocking together carcasses and the like but you'll find in building work that the magazine on a straight bradder is a liability when working in corners and trying to skew nail. Watch out when buying a "no name" tool as parts may not be available a few years down the track. I would recommend buying a complete rebuild kit at the time of purchase, obviously if the retailer has trouble buying it now then it's time to rethink that "bargain".

Mick

[Fantapantz]

Put off major purchases until the taxman forks out again (hopefully within the week) and pay day comes around again. Presently building a table for the SCMS. Cut all the metal up drilled the holes for the hieght adjustment for the extension arms, welded it all together........and I knew I shouldn't have rushed........Welded one end on back the front so the holes are in the wrong spot. I said "Oh what a pitty, I made a mistake", or was it "#$_*(#^ Hell"??? Nothing like trying to line up holes perfectly when the drill bit is too short to reach both pieces by 10mm.

How long do you think I should make the extensions? They'll be supported on the outer end by something adjustable (haven't designed it yet).

[journeyman Mick]

I've had a few different cutting benches for my drop saws (just like I've had numerous utes, tool trailers, tool box set ups etc etc) as I kept trying to find "the best" set up. There isn't one. What I've found is that any set up needs to be as flexible as possible, because sure as eggs, as soon as you finish building your steel cutting bench you'll tackle a project inside the house or somewhere equally inaccesable for your bench which will either mean setting the saw up on the floor and bending down all day, or setting it up outside and running up and down the stairs all day. (You probably don't have stairs, or can get your bench in through a doorway, but you get my point). A fixed, purpose built bench will be fine for your workshop but as you are meant to be renovating to keep SWMBO happy and amenable to you buying more goodies you may need to look at something that you can use right next to your pergola project or inside the house to replace skirtings. My current setup for my workshop is (or will be when I set it up again) is 2x 3M long benches with a space about .9M inbetween. I have several different tool modules mounted on castors that slot into the space and are built to bring the tool they carry up to the right height for the bench. For site work I have (very high tech!) a couple of bits of pine framing nailed together in a "H" pattern to form hurdles for the timber to sit on at the height of the saw. If it's a really quick job I'll throw 2 or 4 of these on the ground and lay the saw down inbetween them - voila! a cutting bench. If I'm going to spend a bit more time at the saw I'll throw a plank on some stools and have the preceeding setup on top of it. It doesn't matter what length you make your extensions, they'll always be too short for some jobs and get in the way for others.
Another helpful tip for site work often PVC sewer or storm water pipe will be the right height to support stock for your drop saw or metal cutoff saw, plus they will act as rollers.

Mick

[Marc]

On the topic of nail guns . . . . . I am in the market for a compressor and a pneumatic gun.

A compressor becuse besides the nail gun I want to do some sand blasting, needs to be 12 cfm I think, on the nail gun front I have 0 experience and so after visiting 3 different tool shops I know now less than before.

If I understood correctly, besides brand considerations, the choice of gun comes down to the type of nail the gun is able to load.

So here starts the confusion not to mention dismay at the fact that each manufacturer makes the gun in a way that it only takes their particular nail (#@$&@@)

C series, if I want little stright nails with a small T type head for finishing job or "inside jobs" like the salesman told me. goes from 25mm to 65mm nice range but what if I need a bigger head?

Need to go to the FN series or D/A . . . .and different gun again.

For framing there was D head and some other two or three, my head is spinning, and to top it all up, none of this is any good for decking . . . . . .

So what on earth to buy?

For smaller jobs, the C or the FN or the DA ??????
FOr framing D or what else?
For decking ?????????

I did like a small Bostitch gun C series but the limitation on the nail one can use is a real pain in the proverbial neck not to mention pocket.

Any ideas?

[kenmil]

Mick....Mick....Has anyone seen Mick ??

[journeyman Mick]

Okay, for framing guns everybodies gun will take a Senco nail except Bostitch. Choice here is pretty wide, but for my money the Paslode is the best value in the brand names (as opposed to the no name ones). Then you get coil nailers, and to be honest there's now so many on the market that I haven't kept up, let alone played with them all. There's coil nailers for: fibro sheeting, framing, fencing, framing brackets and strapping etc etc etc. I own two, sorry can't give you model numbers but one's the bostitch one for fibro the others the old Hitachi, good for light framing, fencing, structafloor, trip-l-grips and cladding. I have shot down decking with the Hitachi but I wouldn't recommend it. Hand nailing is really the only way I know to get a good neat job.

C series are very fine gauge, I wouldn't buy one unless I needed to shoot a lot of beading onto window frames.

D series is a good all rounder gauge for finishing work or carcass construction but because it's a straight clip & magazine it's sometimes unwieldy, so then you can go to:

DA (D angled) same size and use as above but gets into tighter spots.

FN Bostitch finish nailer, about the same gauge as DA

Senco finish nailer I think is a different gauge again, slightly heavier. A few years ago i was on a job and I was side by side with a guy using a senco finish nailer while I had the (now superseded) N50FN. We were both running off the same compressor fixing 19mm Tas Oak T&G to hardwood framing. My gun would drive the nails below the surface, his wouldn't even drive them flush. Plus his gun was new whilst mine had already seen 3 years of pretty constant use.

I would get a DA, FN or similar first as unless you're doing a lot of framing you will use this the most. A bostitch coil nailer will let you fix triplgrips, fence palings, battens (will take up to a 65mm flat head nail), and at a pinch you can shoot 35 mm stud material together with it. The only way I know of to get a deck down without unsightly big nail heads is to hand nail with 50 or 65mm bullet head nails. The coil nailers all have flat head nails and the finish gun nails aren't galvanised and are too fine a gauge.

Work out what you need to do, and how much of it and I might be able to give you a bit more advice. There's also a little hand pneumatic nailer too. It fits into the palm of your hand and has a tube sticking out of it. Inside the tube is a driver. You place the nail in position and place the tube over it. As soon as you put pressure on the driver with the nail head the driver will start hammering up & down. When the nail is flush the process stops. Puma makes one, Ryobi did one years ago and there's probably a few others.

Mick

[Fantapantz]

I just replaced a couple dozen boards on a deck. After the first couple attempts at hammering the boards down I decided to predrill every hole to stop the boards from splitting. Can't remember what gauge nails they were, but I tried a couple different ones and decided on the ones that didn't bend after the first strike. Is it supposed to be such a time consuming pain in the R's?

[journeyman Mick]

Yep, 'fraid so. You can sometimes get away with only predrilling the ends of the boards depending on the timber but in the majority of cases it's every nail. Last deck I did I sat on an old skateboard to try to save my back a bit -it does make it a bit more pleasant.

Mick

[Fantapantz]

So a nail gun is totally out of the question for decking if you want a good job and think about it logically. What about the concealed nailing of T&G flooring. Not dreaming of buying one but am interested. Do they split the timber?

[journeyman Mick]

No they work fine, they use air pressure as well as a whack from a huge rubber mallet to drive a large staple. The staple provides good holding power without needing too big a gauge so splitting is pretty much eliminated. These can be hired and with the price of T&G nowadays are worth it, especially when you factor in the time savings in punching and filling the nails.

Mick

[Marc]

Hi Mick!
Thanks for the info about the different nail guns.
In my further incursions on the topic I found a salesman who assured me there is some gadget you add to your framing gun, to do deckings without marking the timber.

[journeyman Mick]

You might be able to get something to cover the teeth on the contact trip but it won't stop the actual driver hitting the decking. All the framing guns i've used leave a nice impression of the driver blade as it comes down and hits the nail. The other problem is the nails themselves. They are very large gauge and heads and will almost certainly split the boards. Plus you'll find that as the 3" nails are the most popular size for framing guns they will be the cheapest - around $40 per box whereas 2" are hardly ever used and will be almost twice as much. If you really want to go this route I suggest you get some decking offcuts and take them down to the shop and ask the salesman to do a demo. Being flat head nails it is almost impossible to get the heads flush with the surface on hardwood decking (might be OK on treated pine decking) which will result in a deck that is extremely unpleasant to walk on barefoot, possibly even causing cuts.

Mick

PS if you do end up going down this path I've got a box or 2 of 2" nails I can sell you cheap.

[kenmil]

Originally posted by Marc
Hi Mick!
Thanks for the info about the different nail guns.
In my further incursions on the topic I found a salesman who assured me there is some gadget you add to your framing gun, to do deckings without marking the timber.

Marc,

That "gadget" is called a 'no-mar' tip, and is available for most nail guns. It doesn't prevent the splitting problem that Mick mentioned though.

[Fantapantz]

Bunnies finally got around to sorting out the LS1212 SCMS mess after a few not pretty emails. ended up costing $1075.

Has anyone got the Delux Router table in the Timbecon catalogue (page 41, $599) ? Is on sale at Tradetools for $495.