History of Stanley/Bailey Bench Planes

[Volute]

thanks for the reply,i looked up that link,it does refer to sargents being an agent for bailey, the no.6 has made in USA, not canada, and the no.6 is on the tail end of the plane, there is no reference to stanley, i think it must have been before stanley bought them out, i also have a stanley made in australia. have you any knowledge of an ACORN bench plane. all the best,ron

Hi Ron,

It would be a really nice find if you had a pre-Stanley Bailey. Does the blade have any markings on it? How about the cap iron and brass adjusting nut?

Stanley and Sargent were head-to-head competitors when Sargent used the VBM logo, and Bailey had been bought-up by Stanley decades beforehand. Leonard Bailey, however, decided to go back into plane making.

So, for a time, Sargent did act as agent for Leonard Bailey - for his line "Victor" (per D. Heckel.) This was from 1877 until Mr.Bailey, under legal pressure, settled and Stanley took over the Victor brand name, too. That agency could only have lasted for a few brief years, ending about 30 years before "VBM" appeared. The history of Leonard Bailey's relationship with Stanley can be found at Stanley Rule and Level Co by Phillip Whitby.

"Bailey" appeared on Stanley bench plane castings from 1902, according to the kind of internet dating sites I frequent.

For fun, try the Rexmill site RexMill.com Hand Planes 101 The Resource which uses pictures to assist with dating. Or post some photos here and we can all have a go at it.

Lots of info - an incredible amount - can be found at Patrick Leach's site Patrick's Stanley Blood & Gore Profit Warning

So, you could have a really old Leonard Bailey-made plane with a replacement lever cap or, far more likely absent more information, a Stanley-made Bailey with a replacement lever cap.

Cheers,
Rob

[Volute]

Yes I'm not sure to what extent the perception is based on fact versus tool snobbery

I think there are plenty of people here who have been able to turn the English ones into good users. They're just not as sought after by collectors, which makes them good value I reckon.

But that Canadian #4 is a nice little plane.

There is a snobbish stigma with being a branch-plant version. It doesn't matter that the Australian, Canadian or English factories could produce a plane as good or better than one cast at Stanley Works (or even by another foundry under contract).

The poor old English Stanleys cry-out to be loved, but who can hear those plainitiff whimpers? In their own country, they are outshone by companies like Norris, Preston, and Record, all of which are "authentic" English brands (although Record bench planes are really one of the many companies to copy and improve on the expired Stanley-Bailey patents). In the US, there is a natural preference for Stanleys made there. In Canada, I doubt we care as much but the demand for US Stanleys gives them a certain value, and Canadian-made Stanleys are everywhere if you just want a decent plane. We also like things British, and Records have a strong following here, particulary as Lee Valley (before they developed their own line and Record devolved) and other good tool shops like Atlas in Toronto sold them for many years.

I have a mix of Records, Canadian Stanleys and US Stanleys, along with a couple of Sargents. The internet market is driven by US buyers. Were I to sell a Record, a Canadian Stanley and a US Stanley on a certain website, all of similar quality and age, no question which one would sell for more. South of the equator, I suspect shipping costs make the market considerably different and less US influenced?


Cheers,
Rob

[patron]

Hi Ron,

It would be a really nice find if you had a pre-Stanley Bailey. Does the blade have any markings on it? How about the cap iron and brass adjusting nut?

Stanley and Sargent were head-to-head competitors when Sargent used the VBM logo, and Bailey had been bought-up by Stanley decades beforehand. Leonard Bailey, however, decided to go back into plane making.

So, for a time, Sargent did act as agent for Leonard Bailey - for his line "Victor" (per D. Heckel.) This was from 1877 until Mr.Bailey, under legal pressure, settled and Stanley took over the Victor brand name, too. That agency could only have lasted for a few brief years, ending about 30 years before "VBM" appeared. The history of Leonard Bailey's relationship with Stanley can be found at Stanley Rule and Level Co by Phillip Whitby.

"Bailey" appeared on Stanley bench plane castings from 1902, according to the kind of internet dating sites I frequent.

For fun, try the Rexmill site RexMill.com Hand Planes 101 The Resource which uses pictures to assist with dating. Or post some photos here and we can all have a go at it.

Lots of info - an incredible amount - can be found at Patrick Leach's site Patrick's Stanley Blood & Gore Profit Warning

So, you could have a really old Leonard Bailey-made plane with a replacement lever cap or, far more likely absent more information, a Stanley-made Bailey with a replacement lever cap.

Cheers,
Rob

thanks for the imformation, i will clean it up and post a few photos, this is the only bailey i have seen with made in USA on it, and no reference to stanley, it does not have a shiney finish ,i read somewhere that they were produced without a plated finish. any news on the ACORN. all the best, ron

[GraemeCook]

Does anyone know much about the history of Stanley and Bailey? I gather Bailey was a plane maker who was 'acquired' by Stanley Rule. They had a falling out and Bailey went his own way.

The reason I ask is I've got this No. 5 plane that I thought was a Stanley. The lever cap is a Stanley but it is not the original and the body is stamped only 'Bailey' and 'Made in Can.'

Can anyone enlighten me?

Good Morning SilentC

Thanks for starting a great debate - it has been very interesting and informative.

I have a plastic handled Stanley Bailey which I guess is fairly modern.

* It has "Bailey No 4½" embossed large on the top of the body around the front knob.

* "Made in England" is embossed large on the top of the body in front of the tote.

* The name "Stanley" does not appear anywhere on the body of the plane.

* The name "Stanley" is embossed on the lever cap and the plastic tote, only.

Cheers

Graeme

[Volute]

thanks for the imformation, i will clean it up and post a few photos, this is the only bailey i have seen with made in USA on it, and no reference to stanley, it does not have a shiney finish ,i read somewhere that they were produced without a plated finish. any news on the ACORN. all the best, ron

Hi Ron,
No clue about Acorns.
Will be nice to see your pics. So far, your info is consistent with a 1929 or later Stanley. I'm going to guess that if the lateral adjustment lever had anything stamped on it, you'd have mentioned it, in which case I'll ask is the body blue by any chance? What's on the blade?
Cheers,
Rob

[jimbur]

Interesting thread. Nearly missed it as I don't usually look in the powered section.
Cheers,
Jim

[silentC]

This thread is so old it actually pre-dates the hand tools forum. It was one of my first posts after joining the forum - I've made a few more since then. I think back then it was posted in Woodwork - General. I don't know why it's here, probably got moved over in a batch when they created all the new forum sections.

[jmk89]

This thread is so old it actually pre-dates the hand tools forum. It was one of my first posts after joining the forum - I've made a few more since then. I think back then it was posted in Woodwork - General. I don't know why it's here, probably got moved over in a batch when they created all the new forum sections.

I have moved the thread into the Unpowered section (and left a redirect in the Powered section for 1 month).

[Vann]

. any news on the ACORN. all the best, ron

I've just aquired an Acorn (No.4 size). It's a later one - made by Stanley as their cheap (budget) line. And it is cheap and fairly nasty.

I don't know if Acorn was independant, before being bought by Stanley, or if it's a Stanley creation. I'll have a look-see when I get home - I may have a little more info there.

Cheers, Vann.

[patron]

hello ,i have sent a few photos of the plane,the cutter is a stanley made in england, the plane is 18 inches long.there is nothing on the lever, the plane appears to have been painted black,i haven,t cleaned it up, i can,t see any other names on it, i hope these photos help. i have added some photos of a pair of very old floor clamps,they were hand made ,the holes were punched out not drilled, they have a number 1838[year?] j. woodhead patentee brisbane stamped on the arm[handle], anyone know the history of the maker, there is not much on the net, all the best

[Scribbly Gum]

hello ,i have sent a few photos of the plane,the cutter is a stanley made in england, the plane is 18 inches long.there is nothing on the lever, the plane appears to have been painted black,i haven,t cleaned it up, i can,t see any other names on it, i hope these photos help. i have added some photos of a pair of very old floor clamps,they were hand made ,the holes were punched out not drilled, they have a number 1838[year?] j. woodhead patentee brisbane stamped on the arm[handle], anyone know the history of the maker, there is not much on the net, all the best

Your plane is a Stanley number 6 made in the USA between 1942 and 1945. It has had a new blade added at some point and the lever cap has been replaced by a Sargent from a 418 or a 422 - this number might be on the back of the lever cap. Originally the plane might have looked something like the attached picture - except longer of course. ( photo courtesy of Rexmill)

The two clamps look like flooring clamps for the clamping up of wooden floorboards. They were used in pairs or threes depending on how long the floor was.

Cheers
SG

[patron]

Your plane is a Stanley number 6 made in the USA between 1942 and 1945. It has had a new blade added at some point and the lever cap has been replaced by a Sargent from a 418 or a 422 - this number might be on the back of the lever cap. Originally the plane might have looked something like the attached picture - except longer of course. ( photo courtesy of Rexmill)

The two clamps look like flooring clamps for the clamping up of wooden floorboards. They were used in pairs or threes depending on how long the floor was.

Cheers
SG

thanks for the reply, i thought stanley always had their name on the baileys, i have stanley baileys made in usa, england and australia some have bailey cutters, others have stanley,i am trying to get imformation of the maker-j. woodhead-there is not a real lot listed, all the best

[silentC]

From the information posted above in response to my query all those years ago:

Stanley eventually sells the remaining stock of Victor and Defiance tools and in 1906 after Bailey's death, commemorates Bailey by casting his name in their standard line of bench planes

[Scribbly Gum]

thanks for the reply, i thought stanley always had their name on the baileys,

If you look on the lateral adjustment lever you should find STANLEY written on the surface.
Cheers
SG

[Vann]

I've just aquired an Acorn (No.4 size). It's a later one - made by Stanley as their cheap (budget) line. And it is cheap and fairly nasty.

According to British Planemakers

Quote:
Acorn: Trade name used by J A Chapman of Sheffield; also used by Stanley Works (G.B) Ltd. for second quality planes after their acquisition of Chapman.

JA Chapman Ltd was manufacturing between 1868-1936, when Stanley bought them out. They started making metal planes in 1934, also making them for the likes of GTL, Spear & Jackson and Talco.

I've glean all the above from other sites. If the info is correct, Acorn were only manufacturing planes for two years before the Stanley takeover.



On mine:

• there's no 'spring plate' on the back of the lever-cap;
• the irons are Stanley (I don't know if that's original);
• the frog has even less bearing surface for the irons than a modern Stanley/Record;
• the lateral adjuster is a flimsey one piece sheetmetal affair;
• there is no frog adjustment screw;
• the depth adjuster wheel is very small;
• the handle nuts are aluminium.

I haven't checked to see if the sole is flat or sides are square.

HTH,

Cheers, Vann.