Sliding compund mitre or circular saw with a jig?

[planetjag]

Hi folks. Very much a newbie here with what might be a dumb question.

My lovely daughter gave me a Bunnings voucher for Dad's day and along with a bit of cash I had tucked aside I thought I could fulfil my dream and get a SCMS. My budget would be between $200-300. Then I started reading these forums and hearing all the tales of woe about GMC/Ryobi/Ozito which are pretty much what I would be looking at.

I won't be a heavy user so I'm so concerned about durability, but it's the innacuracy that worries me.

Now I've started wondering about just buying a circular saw and making a jig/guide to do the job. I figure I could make a 90 degree one and a 45 degree. Anything more complicated and my Dad's tools are only 15 minutes away.

Does this sound like a reasonable way to go? Can I get good, accurate square cuts this way?

If I went this way I'd then have to decide between getting a better quality saw, or I could get a cheap saw and also a cheap router, which I wouldn't mind having.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Jonathan

[pawnhead]

Well if you haven't got one, then a circular saw is much more versatile. A good one should last you a lifetime if you're not giving it a pounding every day.
Just buy a decent protractor and you can cut just about as accurately as any CMS with a bit of practice.

[echnidna]

This forum is populated by tool snobs who think you can't get a good tool unless you give upo an arm and a leg.
the gmc scms gives reasonable service.
if you don't need a scms much go the jig route but the gmc scms is nice and convenient.

[Groggy]

<snip>...My budget would be between $200-300. Then I started reading these forums and hearing all the tales of woe about GMC/Ryobi/Ozito which are pretty much what I would be looking at.

Worst to best Ozito/GMC/Ryobi

I won't be a heavy user so I'm so concerned about durability, but it's the inaccuracy that worries me.

Depends what you mean by "accuracy". Each of the saws will cut a 90 and a 45. Maybe only one will do so accurately using the scales provided. If you do test cuts first to get the correct setting then yes, they will do the job. If you get one of these I would try to get the GMC as a minimum.

Now I've started wondering about just buying a circular saw and making a jig/guide to do the job. I figure I could make a 90 degree one and a 45 degree. Anything more complicated and my Dad's tools are only 15 minutes away.

Does this sound like a reasonable way to go? Can I get good, accurate square cuts this way?

Yes and yes. It will require more care and effort in setting up, but the answer is yes.

If I went this way I'd then have to decide between getting a better quality saw, or I could get a cheap saw and also a cheap router, which I wouldn't mind having.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

For your needs you may well get away with a mid-range 71/2" circular saw, a good blade and a decent guide (which you can make yourself). For finer work visit your dad, that's what they're for. </snip>

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I've a GMC SCMS and it's not the most accurate toy in the world...

...but for what I use it for, it does the job well. Which is basically only for 90&#176; and 45&#176; cuts.

Mine's accurate to around &#177;0.5&#176; so for a picture frame (for example) with 4x45&#176; mitred corners, it's only out by 1-2&#176; total. That's easily pulled in during clamping.

However, for more intricate work, such as 16-sided rings for segmented turning, well... the total errors can creep up to way, way beyond acceptable. (About 8&#176; for that ring. Plus or minus a slop factor, of course.) The GMC is absolutely no chop for that sorta work.

If you don't already have a circular saw though, that'd be my first choice. If only because it's more versatile. ie. it can rip as well.

[Barry Hicks]

G'day Jonathan.
What echnidna says is true - up to a point. What he didn't say is that a lot a cheapies are not accurate and believe me, that will drive you crazy.
I have a GMC drop saw and the bloody thing believes 88 degrees is 90 degrees and there is no way I have found to adjust the damn thing.
I am not a 'tool snob' but after 70+ years I finally bought a Bosch sliding CMS and I am on a 2nd honeymoon - I love it. If I could afford a divorce I would have it in the bedroom.
I went Bosch because it was cheaper than Makita and Hitachi.

Good luck!

[Colin Howkins]

Jonathan,

Maybe I am a tool snob, but over 20 years of seriously mucking about with tools a few things I have found out.

You can get good results with cheap tools, just do not accept that they are inherantly accurate - because they are not. 90 & 45 degree cuts are a snap because you can check it against a try and mitre square and if it is not accurate you will be able to figure out how to make the adjustments to get it there.

Also don't accept once you have set it up, that it will be right next time. Constantly check your work. This can lead to a lot of barbeque wood, but that is the price you pay. A bit of a pain when using expensive timber.

I have found over the years, as the machinery gets better you spend a lot less time checking and spending time on setting up.

I have progressed over the years from Triton, to Taiwanese, to Austrian [Felder]. Have a read of the article in the latest Australinan Wood Review on this.

Most handtools are Makita (the Japanese made ones) Bosch or Metabo

In the meantime I'd reckon get started with your circular saw and if the bug really bites you - progress from there

Colin Howkins
Graceville Qld

[planetjag]

Thanks for all the quick responses. Stuffed if I can make up my mind though. I started thinking that if I buy cheap stuff I can get a circ saw, a router, a sander and more.

On the other hand I like having quality stuff, so I could spend it all on a better quality circ saw.

On the third hand (?) I still really like the idea of a SCMS. Found myself looking quite lustfully at a Ryobi when I went to look at circulars.The convenience of it appeals to me. The Ryobi I was looking at can cut 305mm wide, meaning I can cut 600mm sheets if I flip them. That would cover a large proportion of what I will do with it. But part of the convenience is being able to depend on getting a square cut simply.

I'm just talking myself in circles now. Thanks again for the advice.Some thinking to be done.

Jonathan

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Get used to the feeling.

We all feel exactly the same whenever a few pennies fall into the tool budget. Which, oh which, of the goodies we've been drooling over do we get first?

[Cruzi]

Not having the budget of a squillionaire, the much maligned Ryobi Compound SCMS and Table Saw are in use here.

With the SCMS, accuraccy is a problem, but only if you believe the scale, once you learn how to measure the angles, do test cuts to check, then mark the points (for repeatability later) , it is quite good to use. Only thing I found it really sucked at was rabbets(or Dados), the saw can flex during sliding giving uneven depth.

The table saw works a treat, can now get slices of 2mm now, but only after making my own fence and learning how to make sure it is square for every cut, the mitre provided also sucks big time, so crosscut sled & other jigs are needed.

The good brands like Makita, Festool etc are definately the way to go , if you can afford them, but if like me and working to a budget, the Ryobi is quite good, but there is quite a learning curve required to make them work well, and indeed, they do work well, eventually.

Must say though, that making the Ryobi useable was only possible with help of this forum. Not the the least because each tool had a loose nut at the wheel causing most problems.

[Eli]

I'm a tool snob. You can get more done over time with fewer quality tools than you can with many broken tools. Spend what you can, not too far beyond your means, but wait for the best or buy it twice.

The worst thing about crap tools is they hang around forever while you have money to buy better ones but can't justify the purchase, then when you're depending on them, they break.

That doesn't add to enjoyment of the hobby or work. Go for the best circ. saw you can get.

[Exador]

I went Bosch because it was cheaper than Makita and Hitachi.

Good luck!

I have the Bosch GCM12SD and I reckon it's the best thing since sliced bread. All the reviews I read put it equal to or just behind the Metabo and it was over $200 cheaper. I didn't even consider the Festool.

I also have a Bosch jigsaw, which I did buy in preference to the Festool, mostly because it was over $200 cheaper and has many of the same features. It works really well.

[planetjag]

So, I think I will bite the bullet and get a circular saw.

When I looked at finances again I don't quite have the cash for the Ryobi SCMS or the larger GMC, so I'd be stuck with a small GMC or Ozito. The small GMC will be too small for some of what I want (given that I don't have a circ or table saw) and the Ozito just seemed too cheap & flimsy even for me.

I will go back to Bunnings this morning & try to choose a circular saw. If I can get something for between $100-200 with a 40t blade and a solid looking base, that might be what I look at. I get the impression that I should have a blade with at least 40 teeth to do cross cutting, so even if I buy the cheap $47 GMC, I'm up for another $30(?) for a better blade.

When I get home, my lovely wife & bub will be going out for the day so I have the whole day to play in the shed. Until the footy starts anyway.

jonathan

[corbs]

The path I would go down would be as follows:
1. Get the 7 1/2" circular saw (needs jigs but will do just about everything),
2. Down the track add on a triton workcentre and put the 7 1/2" saw in it (start saving for the 9"),
3. Once you have enough money for the 9" get it and change it out with the 7 1/2". You will now be able to rip, cross cut on the triton with the ability to do the quick cuts on the 7 1/2" freehand.
4. If you progress further then you can sell the triton setup (they hold their value pretty well) and use this money to finance an upgrade to a dedicated table saw (like the TSC-10b).

I am between step 3 & 4 now. Have a Makita 9" in the triton and I think my 7 1/2" is a GMC (or one of those brands).

Good luck and welcome to the circus
Corbs

[rrich]

<SNIP>...
Worst to best Ozito/GMC/Ryobi

O M G ! ! !

I would have never thought that there was anything worse than Ryobi!

There are some good SCMS out there. Bosch, DeWalt, Makita... just to name a few.

As for cutting dados or rabbets with a SCMS, I've cut some with my DeWalt and not encountered any accuracy issues.

As for the circular saw. It will never be as good as a SCMS, regardless of the jig used to stabilize the cut. A circular saw is really a construction tool and not a fine woodworking tool.

There are some possible alternatives. If you are mechanically inclined and feel that you could fine tune a piece of machinery then almost any brand would be good, provided that you can work on it. As the economy here is in a slight dip, more used tools are starting to become available. I'm not sure how the used tool market is there.