Impact Driver vs Battery Drill

[rhancock]

Hi guys,
I've got a little 20m2 deck to screw down, plus the TP bearers on the concrete underneath. I'm using Robertson concrete screws: http://www.sachys-robertson.com.au/specialised.html to screw the TP to the concrete, and 50mm square screws for the decking. I'm going to drill pilot holes into the TP with a countersink in the Yellow Billau decking.

So the question is, do I need an impact driver. I've got two 14v drill with 3 batteries between them, plus a corded hammer drill with plenty of grunt, and a little very old corded drill, all Makita. So I'll use the little drill for the pilot holes, but will the cordless makitas drive the screws? I'm sure I need an impact driver for something, but I really can't afford one, especially as I hate buying $100 crap, and I've just spent $350 on a new Circ saw.

What do you all reckon? Will the battery drills push the screws in? Will the batteries last the distance? What's the difference between the corded hammer drill and an impact driver?

[cflake]

I own a 12v Hitachi impact driver and an 18v Hitachi cordless drill. I bought the impact driver first for around $450 (I think) which included a set with all the driver bits. For a few months, I thought I had wasted my money. Sure, it drove in screws but any old drill could do that - right? When I bought the drill I tried to drive in a few screws, using it the way I did the impact driver. It didn't work too well. Driving a screw into hardwood would round off the head every time. Maybe I'm just bad at driving screws with a drill?

The impact driver drives in screws better than anything I've used. It will drive a screw into hardwood with no pilot hole and will snap the screw before it even starts rounding off the head. If I already had a drill, I doubt I would have bought one. But every time I drive a screw, it's the only thing I reach for now.

The only thing bad I'd have to say is that as an impact driver, the 12v isn't that great. To do quick things it's handy - for example, it's great doing up wheel nuts until the last 1/2 turn. You can do it up tight with the electric gun, then do it up at least another 1/2 turn manually - and probably another turn and a half with an air gun. The 18v may be a lot better in this regard though.

[UteMad]

Impact drivers eat cordless drills for breakfast.... My 18v makita cordless sleeps a lot now since i bought the first and second impact drivers... For screwing deck screws down impact driver wins hands down.... we run 3 of them side by side when screwing off a deck to spread the work load... you can do it with a cordless but its slower and they work a lot harder..
A 12v impact will way out screw an 18v cordless .... My 14.4v makita takes wheel nuts off my ute try doing that with a cordless

cheers utemad

[UteMad]

[quote=rhancock;609553]Hi guys,
I've got a little 20m2 deck to screw down, plus the TP bearers on the concrete underneath. I'm using Robertson concrete screws: http://www.sachys-robertson.com.au/specialised.html to screw the TP to the concrete, and 50mm square screws for the decking. I'm going to drill pilot holes into the TP with a countersink in the Yellow Billau decking.


I checked the website ...the concrete screws you are using are they galvenised cause the website just says "steel" if they are not gal the treated pine will eat them faster than you can make a coffee...
How well are they screwing into the concrete?

cheers utemad

[rhancock]

Thanks, Utemad, I hadn't thought of that, but I could easily use hardwood instead, although then, I suppose I'd need to worry about rot. I'd already decided to route some water channels across the bearers. I've already ordered them, so I'll see what they're like when they arrive.

I understand that an impact drivers is the ducks nuts, but I don't run a team of decklayers! Its possible that I won't do another deck for a year or two, and my makita cordless drill hasn't met its match yet in anything I've done, so I need to know whether I need to spend another $250 on an impact driver. It'd be easy enough for me to zip to Bunnings or Glenfords if the drills arent keeping up, but $250 is close to a quarter of my profit on this job!

[rhancock]

Just had another look at the website, and although it doesn't actually specify what they're coated with, it does say:

The standard finish is "Lube" which has a bronze/Grey colour. The colour of the screw comes from the heat treatment after which a dry wax is applied to prevent corrosion and ease driving.

I don't know what "dry wax" they're talking about, but I can't see it being very effective.

[Pusser]

I use those blue screws designed to go into masonary. They come witn a hex head or a phillips head. Extremely good and I have had no problems with them except when driving with a driver drill. If the pilot hole is not right you can bur the head. Impact driver no problem. Mine is a 12 volt Makita and is good. Much lighter than the drills as well.

Pusser

[scooter]

Just had another look at the website, and although it doesn't actually specify what they're coated with, it does say:

The standard finish is "Lube" which has a bronze/Grey colour. The colour of the screw comes from the heat treatment after which a dry wax is applied to prevent corrosion and ease driving.

I don't know what "dry wax" they're talking about, but I can't see it being very effective.

Richard, AFAIK the lube coating isn't an exterior durable coating. Their pocket hole screws share this same coating.

[UteMad]

If your Makita cordless is in good cond it will do the job fine all be it a bit slower... Make sure you do the 1/8 pilot and countersink on all holes to lesson the load and use a 240V drill for this as it sucks batteries like no tomorrow.... Pilot doesn't go into the batten the type 17 tip on the screw takes care of that.... For a decent impact driver your looking at 400 - 600 bucks last i looked.....

Buy a carbitool pilot and countersink in one for 10G screw this will save you time

Carbitool Model : DCS 3.2 (where 3.2 is the pilot size)

Don't use your coin from doing the job for buying an impact driver if you can't see a heap of use for it now and in the future

cheeers Utemad

[rhancock]

Thanks, Utemad, thats what I'd come to, as well. I've just spent $350 on a Dewalt Circ saw, but I know I will use it constantly, and there is no other tool to do the same job, but I haven't done any jobs in the past where the cordless drill hasn't managed, although I now have 2 makitas and a $20 crappie. And my golden rule is that if I can't do the job I'm doing because I don't have the tools, then I need to buy them so that next time I will have them. ... Or something like that.

The guy in Bunnings said the biggest problem is buggering the motor because you're forcing it to stop a couple of thousand times...

Anyway, as far as the screws go, here's the reply from Sachys Robertson:

"The Concrete screws are treated with two coats of a fluro carbon coating which is ten times more corrosion resistant than Zinc plating. Treated pine screws have a similar coating. You should have no problems with these ccrews through treated pine."

I ended up buying the quick change chuck, square drivers, countersinks etc from Sachys Robertson too. I couldn't find anywhere else that I could get the same range at a sensible price. Theyr're Insty Bits I think. I'll see how they go.

To be honest, I don't think the Robertson screws have got #17 ends, but I am hoping that the screw will drive into treated pine, but I was planning to predrill and countersink in one go. I'll have a play around when I've got the screws and some timber samples, before I start the job. If they're not driving into the TP I've got a little 240v drill I can put a pilot bit into, it shouldn't add much time.

[UteMad]

Type 17 tip looks like a normal wood screw with a bit removed out of 1/4 of on side of the tip to help it cut... Normal chipboard tips will still work fine just a tad slower but not to noticable

cheers utemad

[rhancock]

Aghhh.... Now e've talked about an impact driver, every time I use the cordless drill, I think how much better life would be if I had an impact driver instead....

So I decided to bite the bullet. But only spend $200.... Not possible. Closest I can get is an Ozito 10.8v for $219.

So, back to ebay... what about this: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BRAND-NEW-GEN...QQcmdZViewItem

I've already got one old and one new 12v batteries, but I could justify buying another. Makita website quotes it as 125Nm, and recharge in 45 mins, which is bearable. Course if I hate it I can't take it back, but I havent' hated a makita yet.

Or this: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hitachi-WH18D...QQcmdZViewItem

[UteMad]

you wont hate it...i have the 14.4 and 18v makita and both destroy my 18v cordless to the point the cordless wouldn't have screwed anything in ages... the cordless used to be used for screwing constantly before the impact drivers came....

it a cheap way of getting another tool without the bigger buy price ...just ring someone like total tools and find out what a complete kit is worth before buying the bare tool just so you can weigh it up

cheers utemad

[rhancock]

I spend a lot of time drooling over makita tools, so I know they never cost less than $400! Total Tools dont' put prices on their website, but Just tools has the next model up, 14.4v for $465 http://www.justtools.com.au/prod2876.htm so I figure, $200 plus $100 for battery makes it a pretty good price.

Only problem is that SWMBO will find out if I buy it on Ebay!

[UteMad]

I would still check .....glenfords do 14.4 kit for $399 so 12v will be atleast 50 bucks cheaper.....

You wont pay 100 bucks for a genuine 12v battery on ebay i was selling tonnes of 18v genuine makitas at 90 - 110 bucks 50 - 70 bucks for 14.4v makita....

I would even say if you weren't in a hurry you may get a cheaper rate on the bare tool cause i paid from memory in the early days of impacts 175 bucks for a 14.4v and then 150 or so later on for an 18v version

cheers utemad