D2 Plane Blades - Batch Order 02

[thumbsucker]

Due to the interest in the D2 plane blades originating in this thread and the fact that I have been able to secure a source of K110 D2 tool steel, and make the arrangements for the milling, grinding and heat treatment, at a good price. I have been approached by more members seeking to have their name put on a list for a new lot of plane blades.

Details

To further reduce grinding and expense I will be making arrangements with Bohler Uddeholm Australia, to have flat ground annealed D2 tool steel in near finish sizes to be shipped from Austria to Australia. This will greatly contribute to reducing the cost of cutting and milling the steel. As the flat ground annealed D2 will be only be plus 0.5 mm over the finish size. Which means that they can go straight into heat treatment, and will then only need a quick "lick" on the rotary lapping machine to get them true, flat and square.

E.T.A.

The only drawback is that their will be a 10 week delay as the blades are shipped from Austria to Australia by sea. In addition another 2 weeks for heat treatment, lapping and delivery. Therefore these blades will probably not be ready until January/Febuary 2008.

Options

We will have the option of the following sizes, however we will need to get at least a meter in one set size to make it worth while. I am also giving the option for 150 mm blades for those seeking longer blades.

• 100 x 50 x 8 mm in D2
• 100 x 60 x 8 mm in D2
• 100 x 80 x 8 mm in D2

• 150 x 50 x 8 mm in D2
• 150 x 60 x 8 mm in D2
• 150 x 80 x 8 mm in D2

The List

Please scroll to the next page to post 21

Price

Please scroll to post 12

*Note* The 100 mm blades are suitable only for low profile planes like the HNT Gordon, Japanese, and Krenov Style planes or most homemade wood planes. If you wish to make a classical European style Beech wooden tote and knob style plane or infill plane, make sure to get a 150 mm length blade. Regardless of the length these blades are meant not to be used with a chip breaker, in the same way that the HNT Gordon planes, the bevel up planes and like many modern infill planes that do not employ a chip breaker.

[BobL]

First - great work TS - we really appreciate your efforts in this regard.

I cross checked the prices on the Enco USA website for D2 steel and the Aussie Bohler Uddeholm prices you quote are clearly cheaper than the Enco-USA prices. The Enco D2 prices are shown on page 666 of their catalog.

Just a comment regarding the dimensions of the steel you are purchasing.
If you purchase strips 100 or 150 mm wide x 1 m long you might be able to get the cost per blade down considerably compared to buying the steel in 50 or 70 mm wide strips. Of course it depends on how many takers you get.

With regards O1, Enco-Usa still have the same prices on O1 they had 12 months ago so I'm not convinced about the advice you got regarding these steels.

A 5/16' x 4" x 18" long strip (ie 8 x 100 x 450mm or 8 , 50 mm wide plane blades) of Enco superior (Badger) O1 costs US$50 which is ~US$6 a blade, no grinding to adjust the thickness is need and if Hills charge $36/m for heat treatment that adds ~$4 to a 50 x 100 mm blade. The big factor of purchasing something like steel from OS is shipping (which can be expensive, especially for small orders) but if a big enough order is purchased it's not going to double the price. Earlier this year a group of us purchased 17 kg of O1 steel from Enco landing teh equivalent of 6.25 x 50 x 100 mm blades in Perth for around AUS$7 per blade. Unfortunately I have not had a chance to try this steel out but all reports are that it is high quality and definitely superior to the Starrett O1. I should also add that I have access to a furnace for heat treatment after the blades are formed - however, it is not an atmosphere controlled furnace so I can't tackle D2. Although Enco are extremely good (in fact I would say they are outstanding!) to deal with I have to admit I was still a nervous nellie until it arrived on my doorstep and would personally much rather deal with a local supplier.

[thumbsucker]

If you purchase strips 100 or 150 mm wide x 1 m long you might be able to get the cost per blade down considerably compared to buying the steel in 50 or 70 mm wide strips. Of course it depends on how many takers you get.

I will make enquiries about this. Thanks BobL

We could also get 60 mm and a 40 wide blade from a single piece of 100 mm of steel.

[BobL]

I will make enquiries about this. Thanks BobL

We could also get 60 mm and a 40 wide blade from a single piece of 100 mm of steel.

Watch out for kerf cutting losses. That is why I said you can only get 8 x 50 mm wide blades out of a 450 mm wide piece.

8 x 50 = 400 mm but there will be a minimum of 1 mm kerf x 7 cuts so you end up with 8 x 50 mm pieces and 1 x 43 mm piece.

On a 1000 mm long piece you get 9 blades at 100 and one at about 90.

If the steel is thin enough they can guillotine it but I think they can only do that for 1/8 or smaller - also this can bend the steel and it will be a real pig to get a flat back on.

[thumbsucker]

Watch out for kerf cutting losses.

It was late last night, but the raw flat ground steel is acutely 1030 mm long, exactly for this reason of the kerf. So it is not a concern, and we will easy get (10 @ 100 mm) or (6 @ 150 + 1 @ 100) out of a single 1000 mm length. The 60/40 mm split was just an example; the width will actually wider by about +1.5 then stated, 50, 60, or 80 mm. This is why we can get a 60/40 split from a 100 mm wide piece.

[Toolin Around]

100% in for 2 at 150x60 blades

[triden]

Great work. Put me down for
100 x 50 x 8 mm in D2
100 x 60 x 8 mm in D2
150 x 60 x 8 mm in D2
150 x 80 x 8 mm in D2

[sumu]

Hello TS,

Due to the interest in the D2 plane blades originating in this thread and the fact that I have been able to secure a source of K110 D2 tool steel, and make the arrangements for the milling, grinding and heat treatment, at a good price.

This thing will explode your CV with highest recommendations of the community .

BTW, Sorry TS, I tried to answer to your questions that day in that other thread, but for some reason my reply got lost in the netspace. I did not check it out right away, so it's my bad . But the other fellas covered the thing well.

Some guys wished the bevel uncut. I understood they seemed to worry about possible edge defects during heat treatment. I wonder if that kind of concern rises from such experiences where heat treatment operator just drops the piece in hardening fluid and it is banged there against the bottom of the container, edge first. The piece should be quickly drawn submerged with pliers or such, or in a basket. Edge should sink in first. If this is the origin of worry, I understand it. It is another silent detail in the process practice.

Although you have readily solved out the stages of the process, do you mind if I again comment something? There is going to be thick iron, and therefore bevel surface will appear as quite large. For example, if there is 25 deg bevel angle and 8mm thick iron and it is 50mm wide, the surface area is about 947 mm^2. For a comparison, modern english Stanley iron is 2mm thick, and when having 25 deg bevel angle and 50mm width, the bevel surface area is about 237 mm^2. There is exactly 4 times larger area, and it is also hardened and tempered D2 tool steel. I can't help wondering if it would be possible to consider some hollow grinding when cutting the bevel at the factory. This is just something I would consider. There would be less need for a sharpening jigs, indeed .

TS, Well Done .

kippis,

sumu

[thumbsucker]

Hi Sumu good to hear from you, yes hollow grinding will be the way to go no question, all my HNT blades are hollow ground, and they are M2 blades 6 mm thick.

It is also a question of price to keep prices as low as possible we skip grinding the primary bevel at the factory and each member who can grinds it themselves and those who cannot get me to do it. It is the one part of the process most of us can do ourself.

Many people also just seem to want a good quality blade at a good price and seem more then happy to grind, polish and hone the blade just the way they want it, straight of the rotary lapping machine.

Some guys wished the bevel uncut. I understood they seemed to worry about possible edge defects during heat treatment. I wonder if that kind of concern rises from such experiences where heat treatment operator just drops the piece in hardening fluid and it is banged there against the bottom of the container, edge first. The piece should be quickly drawn submerged with pliers or such, or in a basket. Edge should sink in first. If this is the origin of worry, I understand it. It is another silent detail in the process practice.

I think this is exactly the concern, I must confess I am worried about all the things that could go wrong. All I can hope for is to deal with reputable companies all along the production line, and that they do a good job of it at every stage of production. I think the fact that we do not have the primary bevel ground before heat treatment is in someway my attempt to reduce those "silent detail" from creeping into production. To reduce the risk's. At the end of the day our money is as good as any other companies money, and companies in the production line will do as good a job for us as they do for everyone else. Therefore outside my obsessive tendancy to be naturally anxious, I think we will see an explosion of plane makers all over Oz, all pushing along some nice steel blades.

[Pops]

Hi TS,

PM sent, but, just to be sure, to be sure.

Please put me down for the following blades:

2 each of - 100 x 80 x 8 D2
1 each of - 150 x 60 x 8 D2

Many thanks.

Cheers
Pops

[thumbsucker]

The List

Please scroll to the next page to post 21

[thumbsucker]

Prices

Here are the prices for Batch Order 02, unlike Batch Order 01 where some members paid as little as $25 for a 100 x 50 x 8 mm blade and some as much as $40 depending on their generosity. Prices will be set to make it more equitable and to keep while keeping the price lower than any commercial operation can sell it at. These prices leave me with the ability to absorb any adjustments in costs for the production run. It will also cover some of my cost's incurred in making the arrangements, telephone calls and travel time. As well as keep SWMBO of my back about this, little venture.

The price per blade is as follows:

100 x 50 x 8 mm == $35 per blade
100 x 60 x 8 mm == $45 per blade
100 x 80 x 8 mm == $50 per blade

150 x 50 x 8 mm == $45 per blade
150 x 60 x 8 mm == $65 per blade
150 x 80 x 8 mm == $70 per blade

200 x 50 x 8 mm == $60 per blade
200 x 60 x 8 mm == $85 per blade
200 x 80 x 8 mm == $95 per blade

I think however it is a good price spread for each blade at a price that gets us the blades at a much lower cost then any commercial operation.

*Update* I have added prices for the 200 mm length blade option

[thumbsucker]

Sizes

I am a visual person and as a point of visual comparison I made up this diagram it shows the relative size of the woodworking forum blades in red, green and blue standard and long lenghts, versus the Hock Tool Blades in grey and the common Stanley sizes in burgundy.

I have converted the usual American/Imperial numbers to metric for comparison.

[Ironwood]

T.S.
pm sent for 150 x 60 x 8 (2 of)
150 x 50 x 8 (1 of)
100 x 50 x 8 (1 of),

Please send details for payment, much appreciated, when I missed out on the first deal I couldnt believe my bad luck for not checking in that day,

Ironwood.

[sumu]

Hello TS,

At the end of the day our money is as good as any other companies money, and companies in the production line will do as good a job for us as they do for everyone else. Therefore outside my obsessive tendancy to be naturally anxious, I think we will see an explosion of plane makers all over Oz, all pushing along some nice steel blades.

Yes. There is always the "trouble" of making usable hand tools by oneself, but more revealing it will be to all kind of people that in the end, there is really no such imperative divine order according to which everyone should spend money into some ultrahyped overpriced products, or in even worse situation, to buy crap when there is not much money to spend. The concept of a hand tool is nowadays too much seen as "as-is", like there would be nothing to do for it's quality for working with things.

It is so that plane iron is seen as the most mysterious component of the plane. Actually it is not, but it's obtainability all by oneself requires a bit too much of supportive equipment and skills around it. Therefore it is very healthy practice to clearly show via honest examples that there is a well marked route through all this, with no need to fill up everyones' back yard with furnaces and grinders.

Future collectors will be in a trouble because of us .

kippis,

sumu