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Thread: Reversing switch Hercus lathe?
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25th November 2007, 07:54 PM #1Product designer retired
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Reversing switch Hercus lathe?
Dear members,
Soon I will be tackling the electrics on my 9" Hercus, currently under refurbishment.
My lathe came without motor, switches, wiring etc, so I will be starting from scratch.
Have just purchased a single phase, reversible motor, and ask, what sort of controls do I need? There is a wiring diagram on the motor, and it's just a case of reversing two wires.
Thinking ahead, I presume I'm going to need some type of enclosure containing three push buttons, forward, stop and reverse. The motor draws about 5 amps.
Whilst on the question of reversing, what's to stop the chuck from coming undone, when put into reverse on full power?
I'm hoping to do the wiring, then have it checked by a qualified sparkie.
Any comments are welcome.
Regards,
Ken
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25th November 2007 07:54 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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25th November 2007, 08:28 PM #2Electrician
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If possible, post all the electrical info you have as well as the circuit diagram.
Also, be aware that your "average" sparky probably doesn't know much about "controlgear", which is a specialist field. However, a "switchboard" sparky (he builds switchboards) probably will know about controlgear. I say this because what you intend to do involves the use of controlgear/switchgear.
I have many years experience with switchgear/controlgear.“I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.” - Nikola Tesla.
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25th November 2007, 09:21 PM #3China
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all you need is a forwood reverse switch, any sparky would be able to wire it
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25th November 2007, 09:29 PM #4
Or you could use a magnetic contactor through a rotary switch like what was on the Durden Pacemaker sawbenches. They had to run both directions to suit the boring attachments that that ran in the opposite direction to the saw.
If you want a copy of the wiring diagram let me know and I'll email it to you.Have a nice day - Cheers
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26th November 2007, 12:27 AM #5Electrician
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Fitting a piece of switchgear/controlgear is not problem, however, being able to select the correct switchgear/controlgear can be a problem.
The OP has suggested using pushbottons to control the lathe. I think that this is the best way to go too. If this method is used, a "reversing" contactor arrangement will be needed, which is not cheap but will give the best performance over a very long period of time.
Using rotary switches for this purpose is cheaper & simpler but switches tend to not last as long as contactors.“I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.” - Nikola Tesla.
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26th November 2007, 12:33 AM #6Product designer retired
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Dear ELKANGORITO,
Attached is a wiring diagram, as shown on the motor. The motor was manufactured in India by Crompton Greeves, and looks to be of high quality, time will tell.
I'm unfamiliar with the markings K AZ A & T
Behind the cover plate are 4 terminals marked K AZ A and T, plus an earth screw.
The motor is capacitor free.
What do you reckon these designations refer to?
Regards,
KenLast edited by neksmerj; 26th November 2007 at 01:31 AM. Reason: Edit: Fix typing error
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26th November 2007, 01:44 AM #7Electrician
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I'm unfamiliar with the terminal designations too as they are neither DIN or IEC. Is this a 4 pole motor? (1500 RPM). Also, I'll hazard a guess & suggest that the motor is split phase with a centrifugal switch. This would explain the large number of wires in the terminal box (1 wire for each pole & 2 wires for the start winding).
I've done some checking on the web & have come up with what I think you need. I have no idea of the cost (it won't be cheap) but are readily available via most electrical wholesalers. See the attached document.“I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.” - Nikola Tesla.
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26th November 2007, 02:05 AM #8GOLD MEMBER
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Find out how much this switch mentioned will cost,Then price a reverseing drum switch,thats what the lathe would probably orriginally came with.
If you decide to go with the drum switch check (EBAY USA),they are usually quite cheap from USD$10 to USD$30.
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26th November 2007, 02:45 AM #9Product designer retired
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Dear ELKANGORITO,
Thanks for your efforts, I appreciate it, will check out prices.
PIPECLAY, I know you have a Hercus, what sort of arrangement do you have on your lathe? I'm quite in favour of using the drum switch, it's more in line with the Hercus original wiring set-up. Any idea where I can pick up an original mechanical switch?
I have an old picture of the Hercus, in a McPherson's catalogue, and the drum switch is quite evident mounted on the opposite side of the chuck.
Regards,
Ken
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26th November 2007, 09:46 AM #10Senior Member
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Just to throw in another thought if you are not too far down the wiring refurb, a VFD would make a very versatile set up, the small Teco 1Hp one about $320 (new) and it only req a low volt 3 position switch Fwd-Off-Rev. I have this setup on my Myford through an Ally frame motor (much lighter), smooth and quiet as its 3 phrase, also infrequent belt changes in the common use speed band.
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26th November 2007, 10:05 AM #11Senior Member
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If you have the spare $$ think about wiring in an E switch as well. No harm in having something conveniently located for the worst case scenario.
If ever I find a decent reasonably priced 1hp 3 phase foot mount I am going to a VFD. Belt changes are the only downside to owning a belt drive lathe over the more modern gear heads.Cheers
Craig
Brisbane
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26th November 2007, 10:27 AM #12GOLD MEMBER
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Ken,
I have a drum switch located inline with the belt guard at around hip height.
Mine is mounted to the front face of the cabinet the lathe is sitting on,its out of the way of swarthe and coolant and easily accessible.
In regards to your question about running the lathe in reverse and having the chuck come off,Ive never had a problem.
(Make sure that what ever fixture you are using has seated against the headstock spindle face).
I know that with your tappered roller spindle your speeds will be greater than mine(1100rpm to 25rpm ),I have never had a problem,but mainly only use reverse for screwcutting ,chamfers and rare parting off jobs.
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26th November 2007, 11:46 AM #13
Hi
Asumming the lathe has a thread mounted chuck, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!
DO NOT PUT THE LATHE INTO REVERSE WHILE IT IS ALREADY ROTATING FORWARD!! ESPESCIALLY IF YOU TRY THIS UNDER FULL POWER AND THEN FULL POWER IN REVERSE!!
The rotating mass of the chuck can EASILY be enough to unscrew itself under the above circumstances. The risk is greater when you have additional weight of the item being turned.
Let the lathe come to a STOP BEFORE changing to reverse.Kind Regards
Peter
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26th November 2007, 02:21 PM #14Electrician
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Not a bad idea but I think you mean a "soft starter". A VFD (aka VSD) is a variable speed controller - a soft starter is not. Also, it is worth mentioning that if a VSD is used, the motor must be rated for "inverter duty" (minimum insulation Class F) & the motor must not be run at less than about 25% of its rated RPM.
“I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.” - Nikola Tesla.
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26th November 2007, 02:38 PM #15
I think he does mean VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). He's not talking about a soft starter at all. I've set them up before on lathes and they are a great idea!
Have a nice day - Cheers
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