What Timber to Use for Boatbuilding???

[gregory]

Hi All,
I'm starting to build a ply trailer sailer and would like some info on timber selection. The boat will be put together with Bote-Cote. (I used it on a canoe and a sea kayak a few years back and they're still like new,top stuff).

The trailer sailer keel is and stem is about 300 by 50 by 5metres long. Any ideas about timber type,preferably without spending too much? Also timber for framing/stringers?
Thanks.

[bitingmidge]

Gidday Gregory,

What do the plans say about timber type? That would be a good starting point for discussion.

Can you give us a little more detail on the boat?

Cheers,

P

[gregory]

The plans are for a Pocket Cruiser from Stevenson Projects, the plans use pine to keep costs down. I'd rather something a little longer lasting.

[Wood Butcher]

What's wrong with something like Hoop Pine? If it is sealed properly it'll last as long as the rest of the boat.

[bitingmidge]

Anything will last the life of the boat if it's sealed properly with epoxy, so a reasonably clear pine of any variety should be fine. Hoop would be excellent. Maybe you could get a pine of the treated variety, but test it's gluing capability first.

I wouldn't change the designers specifications too much, I particularly wouldn't use a "more durable" Aussie hardwood, as it will be structurally an overkill by a long, long way, and it will also weigh far too much if you are going to build the boat to it's designed displacement.

If you aren't planning to epoxy coat the boat before painting, then don't waste your time changing from pine either, as it'll decompose at about the same time that the rest of the boat starts falling to bits!

Cheers,

P

[b.o.a.t.]

If you aren't planning to epoxy coat the boat before painting, then don't waste your time changing from pine either, as it'll decompose at about the same time that the rest of the boat starts falling to bits!

Cheers,

P

Given that the keel is generally the first bit of a boat to have the epoxy / glass coating ground off it, I would have thought a rot-resistant timber preferable. Given that treated pine is used to build long-lasting jetties & etc, I felt safe to use it for the keel/skeg of my Teal. The 'poxy membrane has been breached many times in the 7 or 8 years since, always been used in fresh water, yet is still sound and, even more pleasing, attached (glue only, no screws).

As for the rest of it, I found that BS1088 "Pacific Maple" A/B marine ply at premium retail from a boat builder worked out about the same $$ as gumby A/C exterior from Bunnings. The BS1088 was at all times stronger, lighter & better made than the "cheap" stuff. The only way to get any plywood 'cheap' is from a wholesaler or fallen off the back of a truck...

Other timber might be got cheaper from house demolition sites, species depending on where you are. Adelaide is a gold-mine for Oregon in roof frames, & baltic pine in floor-boards (& the demo folks know it). No convenient millable hardwood forests here like in east & west states.

cheers
AJ

[gregory]

Thanks very much for your help. Yes, all the timber will be coated with epoxy.

[spoinky]

Well to get a good keel of the size you are talking about, I would go for Oregan. It can be had in large clear sizes, is quite durable, and not much heavier than pine. It is also structually very strong, but not at overkill level.
Good luck

[PAR]

I pretty familiar with the Stevenson Pocket Cruiser (PC). It's a fixed keel, gaff cat boat, sharing a similar bulbous forefoot that all the little Stevenson cruisers have. It's also the most stable of all the pocket cruisers from them, though it is capsizable, you'll have to work pretty hard at doing so.

Many have been built, with many more currently under construction.

I've listed two discussion forum sites, the first is BYYB (Back Yard Yacht Builders), which is specifically geared around the Stevenson designs. The folks there are builders, most for the first time and happy to share the joys and pain with you. They've been there and can bring you up to speed on what to watch for, etc. This site has no professionals other then myself and one other that stops by every now and then. The Stevenson's aren't active on line.

The second site caters to any design, with specific attention paid to Graham Byrnes work over at B&B Yacht Designs (I believe Graham is a transplant from your country). They also have many of the Stevenson builders there and a much more diverse collection of builders, with a few professionals and a designers tossed in for good measure.

http://byyb.org/phpBB2/index.php

http://www.messing-about.com/forums/

You'll find a kind mixture of folks at both sites, most familiar with your design selection, it's quirks, weak points, strong points and recommended up grades.

I don't mean to chase you away from this site. You'll need these folks too, particular on local availability for lumber, plywood, goo, etc. Finding reasonable substitute wood species can be intimidating, so the guys here can help you out, not to mention tell you where to get good prices on fasteners, etc.

[Wheat]

Having built a 28 footer in timber. I experimented a little. I would look at using Hoop and laminating a capping strip using a denser timber this would improve the strength but keep the weight down and also should she run aground and she will it will give some protection if you penetrate the glass. Also remember epoxy breaks down in sunlight. Also laminating timber to get the desired dimensions can help solve problems like timber movment if you use large sectioned timber.
Goodluck
Wheat

[Fair Dink]

Hi Gregory,

I'm not sure if you want a project or want a boat ( I suspect you enjoy building) , but there was a Weekender for sale at the Bribie Regatta a few weeks back.

I don't have details, but someone might.

[Boatmik]

Oregon is fine but can be hard to get now in OZ. We have been finding that the most common replacement species is the plantation grown Hoop Pine.

If you can find some Oregon (Douglas Fir in the USA) in OZ at the right price and quality it is preferable, but if you can't get it hoop pine or meranti will be OK. They are often not so durable, but as you are using epoxy sealing (3 coats can be applied wet on wet with a reputable epoxy brand) then there will be no problem with less durable timber if you are careful with the coating.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

[MikeyRoberts]

Is Hoop Pine the common name for the knots and splits sold as "Dressed Pine" in Bunnings? (I think someone on the forum identified the latin name as "Pinus Crapiata")

[jmk89]

Nope - that's Radiata Pine - hoop is one (significant) step up in quality from radiata

[Tony Hunt]

Hoop pine and radiata pine are very different beasts - different botanically as well as in timber characteristics. Radiata pine is a fast growing non-native (to Australia) conifer (genus Pinus) species, widely grown in plantations, mainly for structural lumber purposes like house framing, although clear grade material is also available and is widely used for cheap furniture etc.

Hoop pine is a native Auraucaria species (related to things like Norfolk Island pine, Huon pine etc). It's slower growing than radiata but is also grown in plantations, mainly in northern NSW and in Qld. Sadly, a lot of the NSW plantations are being replanted with faster-growing but very inferior quality pine species because the shorter rotation (23-30 years for pine vs 50+ years for hoop) gives better economic returns, yet another example of horrible short-term thinking. Hoop, especially the more select grades, is lovely stuff. It's sometimes marketed under the trade name "Arakaria".