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  1. #1
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    Default installing ceiling fans

    I purchased some ceiling fans to install at home. The sort I bought include a light and are controlled by remote control, I chose these because the salesman told me they are easy to install and simply replace the existing light fitting. The instructions say they need to be wired through an isolation switch (the light switch?) and three wires, active, neutral and earth. The wire running to the lights is obviously two strand with no earth. Is it possible to leave the earth wire off or do I need to get power run through the ceiling to each fan (so much for a simple self installation).
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  3. #2
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    Is there an earth at the actual light fitting? if there is you have no problems
    You have an Active and Switch wire at your light sw this has nothing to do with the remote control module for the fan!
    BY law an earth must be provided at every light fitting if you do nothave an earth you will have to get an Lic Electrician to install

  4. #3
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    Here we go again

    Heres what you do install them your self turn the light on touch the red and the black wires
    Electrocute you self and SUE the a*se of the salesman who told you you could install it you're self
    BECAUSE YOU CANNOT Legally

    Get an electrician

    And when the electrician presents the bill to you don't complain about the cost
    When Electricians change a light fitting they have to earth the fitting BY LAW this often means a partial rewire

    IMO if none of the light fitting are not earthed get the house rewired as I would assume the wiring is old

    Then again its your life and your SAFETY and everybody else that enters the house
    Electricity:
    One Flash and you're ASH

  5. #4
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    Default

    I'm a tad puzzled about this no earth to the lights thing. Perhaps it varies by state but I've never come across it here in Tas other than with blatantly obvious DIY jobs using the good ole speaker wire.

    Actually, off topic but I've often wondered if any speaker wire actually gets used for connecting speakers. So much seems to fall into the hands of DIY "electricians" wiring houses that I'm surprised there's any left for actually connecting speakers.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    Actually, off topic but I've often wondered if any speaker wire actually gets used for connecting speakers. So much seems to fall into the hands of DIY "electricians" wiring houses that I'm surprised there's any left for actually connecting speakers.
    Not quite an answer to your question smurf, but the lightest cable that i run speakers through is 1.5m2 stranded twin active, I won't even use speaker cable for speakers.

  7. #6
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    You Need electrician badly
    Mate the three to the fan need to be actice neutral and earth , the fan has to be earthed, otherwise if there is a fault , one touch and your ash.

    You have said " The wire running to the lights is obviously two strand with no earth." obviously humm an asumption on your part me thinks , start making asumptions with electricity and you can assume you will get zapped badly , the light fitting should have an active neutral and earth connection if it doesn't then
    You Need electrician badly

    Are you making the assumption that it is only an active and neutral or as you said two strand because there are only two wires to the switch if so then
    You Need electrician badly

    A little knowledge is a dangerious thing and when dealing with electricity is as bad as making asumptions or worse a deadly thing
    Bottom line
    You Need electrician badly
    Ashore




    The trouble with life is there's no background music.

  8. #7
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    Default

    He (the OP) didn't reply so maybe he got zapped?
    “I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.” - Nikola Tesla.

  9. #8
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    Why dont you get double insulated ceiling fans? So many older ie pre 1980's houses only use 2 core on the light curcuit.

    Electricians are a sneaky mob - they wont tell you can get double insulated fittings for light circiuts.

  10. #9
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    Default

    It will work with out an earth but for SAFETY and legal reasons if you change the light fitting you have to run an earth connection to it. If the body of the fan is earthed and an internal fault develops in the fans insulation causing the fan body to become live the fuse and or elcb will trip alerting you that there is a problem. Without an earth the same fault could exist and the fan will operate normally until you get up to change the light globe and zap, it could be fatal, so in this case if you don't know what you're doing get an electrician not only for your own safety but any future owners of the house. There was a time when an earth wasn't included in the wiring for the lights. My parents house circa 1950 is one of these, in fact only one power point in the whole house was earthed. Mom used to complain about getting a tingle from the washing machine so an electrician from Dad's work came checked it out and found only one power point was earthed so from then an extension cord came out on each wash day.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Doogie View Post

    Electricians are a sneaky mob - they wont tell you can get double insulated fittings for light circiuts.
    Because the regulation refers to the lighting point not the fitting

    I quote Regulation 5.7.3.3 AS/NZ3000:2000 and 5.4.3 AS/NZ3000:2008

    " LIGHTING POINTS-A protective earthing conductor , connected to a terminal or suitably insulated and enclosed SHALL be provided at every lighting point including transformers supplying ELV lighting systems"

    One regulation I disagree with but as I have stated many times I don't write the regs just obey them

    Anyway I don't think I have ever seen Double insulated sweep fans
    Electricity:
    One Flash and you're ASH

  12. #11
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    Hi NeV - siemens make a range of remote control ceiling fans double insulated and were available through CETNAJ (but wasnt a standard stock item). The sparkie installed these last year and he was bamboozled as he was from the lights from IKEA. If a fualt occurrs it shuts down and a little led light comes on. There is no access to any transformer or any earth terminal.

    What is an ELV fitting?

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Doogie View Post

    What is an ELV fitting?

    ELV is EXTRA LOW VOLTAGE (less than 50volts ac)

    Meaning down lights etc
    The transformer must have an earth wire terminated at the transformer even tho there isn't a provision for one.
    There is a legal way around this but thats a trade secret
    Electricity:
    One Flash and you're ASH

  14. #13
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    So even if there is no connection point on the fitting for an earth ,one still has to be installed "somehow" ? Hmm.

  15. #14
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    The thing to realise is that electrical fittings are frequently replaced. Not often do you find a house that's more than a decade old where the power points, light fittings, cooker, hot water and heating / air-con are ALL the originals. Sooner or later something gets changed and in many cases it's a change of type rather than replacing like with like due to wearing out.

    Hence regulations for minimum conductor size that in some circumstances exceed what is actually needed today. And likewise having to include and earth even though the equipment installed today might not need it. There's a high chance of these things being needed tomorrow.

    Why not just rewire in 10 years time? Because in practice most people won't do it. Faced with the cost of a rewire, they'll just DIY without an earth. From a safety perspective if the earth is there it's more likely to be connected wither professionally or DIY.

    ight being installed today is double insulated doesn't mean that the one installed in 10 years time will be. Hence the provision for an earth conductor.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by notenoughtoys View Post
    I purchased some ceiling fans to install at home. The sort I bought include a light and are controlled by remote control, I chose these because the salesman told me they are easy to install and simply replace the existing light fitting.
    Apart from the obvious electricary issues previously mentioned, I'll wager that your friendly salesman didn't point out that in order to be covered by any sort of warranty you MUST get the fans installed by a licenced sparkie.

    If you don't......not only will the installation be illegal (and therefore it'll void your home and contents insurance if your self installation manages to burn your house down) but you'll have no technical or financial comeback if the fans fail within the warranty period....and given that ceiling fans (especially cheap ones) are nearly as unreliable as front load washers then you might be needing that warranty...
    Ours is not to reason why.....only to point and giggle.

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