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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Daylesford, Victoria
    Posts
    402

    Default Fiberglass suppliers / what to ask for

    Hi,

    I am starting to shop around for some fiberglass for my kayaks. I've had advice to look at fiberglass sellers as opposed to marine supply places to save some money.

    Did a Yellow pages search, but not sure what I'm looking for.

    Supplier sites talk about gun rovings, direct rovings, woven rovings, surface tissue, emulsion and powder bound mats, and all sorts of other stuff.

    So what's the name of the stuff we use for boats???

    Thanks, want to make sure I get the right stuff, not something completely unsuitable where I think I've saved money.

    Any recommended suppliers in Melbourne (preferrably east or south east)?

    Regards,
    Darren

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    qld
    Posts
    159

    Default

    TK1, I'm not sure of the answer to your question, however i have built several kayaks and have found the guys at boat craft pacific, http://www.boatcraft.com.au/ very helpful and their prices are quite competitive. I live in rural QLD and their shipping is always prompt and shipping cost quite reasonable. I don't imagine shipping to Vic would be any problem. Give them a call, and they should get you on track.

    regards,

    James

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
    Posts
    8,138

    Default

    If you tell me the construction method you are using and where the glass is going I can probably help (as can some others).

    MIK

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Daylesford, Victoria
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Hi Mik,

    I am building both stitch & glue and strip kayaks. All for river or lake paddling, not much in the way of surf/beach landings or hauling loads of gear. So lightweight f/glass is OK (ie I don't need a completely bulletproof boat).

    So I'm after both tape for seams and sheets for glassing the outsides of the hulls.

    Given I'm doing a few boats, I'd like to shop around and get a roll rather than buying a few meters here and there.

    Thanks,
    Darren

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Kettering, Tasmania
    Posts
    492

    Default

    Darren,

    I would go for some 6 ounce or 200 gsm(grams per square metre) plain weave tape 75mm wide for the seams. As far as sheathing goes you could use the same weight in glass cloth (again plain weave) although some stripper purists will go for 4 ounce cloth. You should be able to get the tape in 50metre rolls for about $40-45 depending on supplier (sometimes cheaper).

    The cloth for sheathing is normally 1 metre wide (some more exotic cloths like double bias is 1270mm wide) and a 50m roll should set you back about $290-320 - again depending on supplier.

    hope this helps,

    regards,

    AD
    www.denmanmarine.com.au
    Australian agent for Swallow Boats, Bruynzeel Multipanel Plywood and Barton Marine Products

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Daylesford, Victoria
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Thanks AD, that sounds about right - I'll just ask for plain weave. Supplier I spoke to said if I buy a whole rolee then it's 15-20% off the per meter price.

    Checked the price at a boat chandlery and it was $2.90/m...so even with a discount, well over $100 for a 50m role!

    Hence my search for a fiberglass supplier directly - could halve the cost.

    Thanks,
    Darren

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    5,773

    Default

    If you want a real shock check out the price of glass tape at bunnings

    holy snapping duck####

    They must have packaging costs.

    cheers
    Any thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
    Most powertools have sharp teeth.
    People are made of meat.
    Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
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    8,138

    Default

    Duck Flat does 50mm tape for $1.20. I can't see the point of going any wider. It is just the same across the join as 75mm so the only reason to go wider is if there are some concerns about the glass on each side of the join pulling away because of inadequate bonding area.

    Never seen it happen in 35 years of glassing boats with 50mm tape.

    Their price for 75mm is $1.95

    With the glassing, recently we have been using weights down to 2oz - particularly when the ply is down to around 4mm.

    Doesn't seem to cause any problems keeps the weight down and reduces labour and epoxy as the weave fills much more easily.

    Nothing wrong with going heavier particularly for expeditioning.

    MIK

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Hornsby, NSW
    Age
    49
    Posts
    453

    Default

    Mik,
    would there be any advantage using 2 layers of 2oz glass versus one 4oz?
    It's obviously a bit more work putting the second layer on but would it give better impact protection or strength?
    Brett
    If I do not clearly express what I mean, it is either for the reason that having no conversational powers, I cannot express what I mean, or that having no meaning, I do not mean what I fail to express. Which, to the best of my belief, is not the case.
    Mr. Grewgious, The Mystery of Edwin Drood - Charles Dickens

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
    Posts
    8,138

    Default

    Howdy - with taping there is no point in using 2 layers of 2oz instead of one of 4oz.

    You only have the same amount of glass crossing the join.

    With larger boats the decision is sometimes made to do join with two or more layers as that allows tapes of different widths to be used which tapers the join so it is less obtrusive visually, but more importantly uses less glass for the same effect.

    However when glassing a SURFACE the two layers of 2oz will protect the wood or material behind the glass from being dented a lot better (the CLC site talks about finding this as a result of testing.

    It fits within engineering theory quite simply in that the two layers of 2oz will almost always end up being a bit thicker than one layer of 4oz which means a larger 2nd moment of inertia - ie you make something of the same material thicker and it will be stiffer.

    Note that we are just talking about the glass layers here.

    Another advantage is in lightweighting a boat structure - if you use two layers of 2oz you can decide where you want to put the second layer - it might not be necessary to double glass a lot of the boat.

    After all the 0.75oz glass I used on my balsa canoe - was one layer all over inside and out but one extra layer just where the outside would touch the ground when on shore and one on the inside where the crew sat.

    Lasted well.

    With a ply boat it does depend on how you are going to use it. I don't do expedition type paddling - or at least when I have done a tour it has been up a river or similar - no chance of surf landings. You can get away with just taping the ply together if this is the case.

    Though during boatbuilding schools we generally check if expeditions are intended and if not move to glass taping only on the inside and glass the whole exterior with around 2 oz glass. It saves so much time in the context of the class - the hull is covered quickly - the lightness of the cloth means the weave is filled very quickly with only one or two recoats required - then it minimises sanding because the thinner cloth sits so flat.

    No glass tape edges to be faired in - very simple.

    You can acheive similar results with peel ply but if you don't get it right - or don't know how it needs to look then you can have an awful mess the next day.

    Michael

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Hornsby, NSW
    Age
    49
    Posts
    453

    Default

    Thanks Mik,
    Was thinking along the lines of glassing requirements for strip kayak and hollow core wooden surfboard - both would see a bit of the Pacific Ocean, although those projects are down the list a bit.
    How difficult is peel ply to work - although that is probably another post for another time.
    Cheers
    Brett
    If I do not clearly express what I mean, it is either for the reason that having no conversational powers, I cannot express what I mean, or that having no meaning, I do not mean what I fail to express. Which, to the best of my belief, is not the case.
    Mr. Grewgious, The Mystery of Edwin Drood - Charles Dickens

  13. #12
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Daylesford, Victoria
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Hi,

    I checked out Bunnings today for glass tape after seeing Soundman's post - wasn't sure if he was referring ot it being cheap or expensive.

    Holy snapping ducks indeed! Once I found it (after 2 employees told me they don't sell it!) it was $8.90 for 2.5m...twice the price of the expensive boat chandlery I looked at, and 4 times other places!

    Was tempeted to go for the "beast it by 10%" thing but the tape didn't specify weight or anything, so I thought I'd do the right thing and support a local 'glass supplier I found...and who has tape for $1.50/m.

    Regards,
    Darren

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Newcastle, NSW
    Age
    38
    Posts
    1

    Default fibreglass suppliers

    I have found a good one local to me:
    www.aafibreglass.com

    and also an online shop on ebay:
    http://stores.ebay.com.au/Composite-...3aFQ3aSTQQtZkm

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
    Posts
    8,138

    Default

    Yep ... for many items from the regular specialist suppliers ... Bunnings puts huge markups on them. I'd imagine they have some purchasing power too.

    I have seen things in bunnings for 4 times their boat chandlery prices.

    (parts to do wire balustrading ... and the wire was 304 grade stainless which will rust).

    They do have bargains ... but watch the other stuff!!!

    BTW Duckflat is cheaper than one of those suppliers and has a range of materials to choose from unlike the other.
    http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/m.../materials.php
    and they mail order over australia.

    MIK

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eustis, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,270

    Default

    A lot depends on the type of boat your building and as Michael has mentioned, if it's service will be severe.

    With very light weight craft, you're probably best off with a regular weave fabric, with the weight of choice. On bigger boats, ones with more load capacity, beam or intended for rough service, biaxial tape is my recommendation. A 45/45 biax will bridge the joint with more fibers, perpendicular to the joint, it drapes better over curves. Because of the way it's assembled (the weave) is considerably stronger then regular weaves.

    I've switched to all biax seams on all but the lightest, most daintily built craft for these reasons.

    When it comes to external sheathing, I like to use some of the new "high tech" fabrics, particularly Dynel. It costs about 20% more then regular S 'glass, but it offers 3 times the abrasion resistance that regular 'glass has. External sheathings are typically used for abrasion and water proofing, so it makes much sense to use the tougher fabric. Additionally, Dynel drapes over compound curves much better then conventional weaves, meaning it's easier to get a nice tight fit. On the other hand, Dynel takes some getting use to as it can easily "float" in the resin, making for a void or resin rich area. It also doesn't go transparent when it's wetted out, so care must be taken to insure it is wetted out.

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