Cancer Warning - Treated Pine in Play Grounds

[barrysumpter]

Hi all,

Anyone else see the front page of the Age today?

I was speaking about this a few weeks ago.

Although the government warning was a bit confusing I've made the call to NOT build from Treated Pine until the issue is resolved.

It looks as though direct contact is the culprit at the moment.

Suggesting the treated pine NOT be used in the future.
And suggesting that any current treated pine play equipment be removed. .:eek:

So my supporting structure for my huge deck in NOT considered dangerous.

I would rather build the school benches from Jarra or Merbau, but I've been asked to sort out alternatives with UNtreated pine (not treated pine).

Since the treated pine was 1/3 the price of merbau (and the labor is free ie me and my fellow school parents) I'm hoping to find a solution using UNTreated pine with a sealant.

Could anyone make any informed suggestions as to low maintenance sealants for UNtreated pine?

[echnidna]

Forget all about untreated pine, you wont be able to seal it well enough to get a good lifespan out in the weather.

Alternatives are to use naturally durable timber
e.g. Redgum , jarrah, turpentine, tallowwood, native cypress , monterey cypress (this is a light colored timber about the same tone as untreated pine) it is sourced from farm shelter belt trees.

Even ordinary hardwood will last reasonably well if you keep the paint up to them. Paling fences last well even unpainted.

[joez]

Heres the Age article:

Cancer alert on treated timber
By Sean Nicholls
December 23, 2003

Australia's chemical regulator has proposed banning the use of arsenic-treated timber in outdoor play equipment, decking and furniture, saying frequent exposure to it may put people at "undue risk".

The regulator will also consider calling for existing structures made of treated pine and other arsenic-laced materials to be removed from thousands of backyards, schools and children's playgrounds across Australia.

The Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority yesterday released the findings of its review of copper chrome arsenate (CCA), a chemical used to combat rot in pine products, after increasing international pressure to phase out its use over fears it may cause cancer.

The authority's principal scientist, David Loschke, said the review was particularly concerned with children aged between three and five. "We must be satisfied the use of this chemical is safe," he said. "We didn't get enough evidence to give us that answer. Therefore we must recommend these uses are stopped."

A United States study this year found frequent exposure to CCA-treated play equipment greatly increased a child's risk of developing bladder and lung cancer, prompting the Australian review.

The Australian regulator wants labels to prohibit the future use of CCA in specific products and a method for easy identification of CCA-treated timber. But it will wait for the results of a major study by the US Environmental Protection Agency, due early next year, before deciding if existing structures pose a significant enough health risk to recommend their widespread removal.

Yesterday's recommendations have been put out for public comment until February 29.

Australia is the world's third-highest per capita user of CCA-treated pine after New Zealand and the US, with about 800,000 cubic metres produced locally each year. While the use of arsenic-treated timber in public playgrounds is being phased out by councils, it is still present in play equipment in child-care centres and schools across Australia.

A timber preservation industry official last night criticised the regulator's report, saying it contained "major inconsistencies".

Harry Greaves, chairman of the Timber Preservers Association of Australia's technical committee, said: "Clearly the APVMA have taken a very precautionary approach to this. They don't know (what the risks are) either, so they've erred on the side of caution. I think that's a pretty poor precedent to set for a chemical that's been around for 70 years."

A Bracks Government spokeswoman said Education Services Minister Jacinta Allan had not yet seen the report. She said the Government would examine the report in consultation with school councils, which were responsible for school playgrounds. She would not comment on the fate of existing school playgrounds.

Opposition Education spokesman Victor Perton said the chemical regulator had correctly taken a conservative approach in recommending that treated pine not be used in future structures. "As for existing structures, I think everyone... will need to look closely at the follow-up studies by the American and Australian authorities," Mr Perton said.

"It is important that people don't panic because the study indicates that no one has any idea how much arsenic adheres to children's and adults' hands after contact with this type of furniture."

Municipal Association of Victoria president Brad Matheson said many councils were in the process of replacing treated pine playgrounds, which had been used for decades because it was the cheapest material, with plastic and metal structures.

"Councils will be watching this with a great deal of interest because it will have impact on risk management strategies in terms of ensuring that we can limit liability in relation to local government," Mr Matheson said.

A Friends of the Earth spokesman said there was also concern that treated pine was being found in garden mulch.


This story was found at: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...941669851.html

[Eastie]

It’s like this that cuases knee-jerk reactions before the issues can be addressed thoroughly and objectively that gives the field of safety such a bad reputation

If the US said the sky was falling I'm sure our government would duck for cover.

:mad: :mad: :mad:



http://www.ffp.csiro.au/wft/wpc/ccafact1.html#1

[Shane Watson]

here here Eastie!

[echnidna]

If the treated pine is painted the surface of the timber is sealed thus preventing arsenic contamination. I painted a verandah deck with Solaguard years ago and it was extremly durable so it must be a very safe method of protecting treated pine playground equipment.

[Robert WA]

Here is some info from SOTICO, a big supplier of treated pine and other timber in WA. It is dated May this year. It took the papers a while to catch on.
Cancer up your nose sounds nasty. Where did I put that mask???

http://www.sotico.com.au/sotico/pdfs...e/cca_msds.pdf

[ozwinner]

Hi all
This same scare went round 15 years ago when my son was at primary school.
He is 19 now and hasn't died from it yet.
But when you think of it, copper, chrome, arsenic, they are all deadly poisenous, but I cant remember hearing of anyone dieing from playing with the stuff, maybe if the fell off the monkey bars?
Cheers, Allan :confused:

[glenn k]

Back in 1974 when this scare was on it was decided that this CCA was not water soluble so it could not be leached from the wood.
There was a man then who said that other solvents could cause problems. Dilute phosphoric acid Fuming carbonic acid mix (coka-cola) may release some of the nasties. I was a chemistry student at that stage and friends of mine tried soaking treated pine in coke to see what was released as a first year project. I was grossly over worked with my own stuff (and often drunk) so I didn't know everything they did but they had results that were confusing and gave up with no conclusive results. But they found no evidence that anything leached out either.
Glenn

[glenn k]

In not really writing this stuff boxing day early morning. its yesterday aferternoon where I am and they have Christmas Eve as the big night here in Germany so Xmas day is just a lazy day.

[Tonyz]

either your've had to much to drink or its lack of sleep for me but say that again :confused: :confused: :confused:

[q9]

========================
HEALTH AUTHORITY WARNING
========================

BREATHING LINKED TO HIGH INCIDENCE OF DEATH

Preliminary research indicates that breathing may in fact be linked to death at a rate of 100%. A positive trend link has been made between people who breathe and their mortality rate. It appears that all subjects observed breathing will eventually die at an absolute rate. The onset of this insidious disease may slip un-noticed by the majority of medical professionals for many years, however it gradually reveals itself by loosening of skin and addition of small folds to the outer epidermal organ extremities. This process continues until patients end term. Further research will be conducted to evaluate the validity of the preliminary clinical trials.

===========
END WARNING
===========

[John G]

I will preface my opinion by stating I am not a chemist or lawyer.

But this sounds like government/councils trying to save themselves from getting sued in 30 years if CCA timber turns out to be dangerous.

Some notable omissions from the Age article:
"a United States study this year found frequent exposure to CCA-treated play equipment greatly increased a child's risk of developing bladder and lung cancer"
- what does "greatly increased" mean?
- who performed the US study? a timber/chemical group, a cancer research group, or an environmental group? Maybe it was the tobacco lobby, since they could then attribute an increase in lung cancer to play equipment rather than passive smoking!
- did anyone impartial peer review or scrutinise the study? How many children were in the study? How did they identify the CCA as the source of risk (as opposed to exposure to anything else)? I assume the children were not locked in test environment for several years. Was there a control group? (of course not).

This definitely sounds like -covering to me.

I'm not saying the findings are wrong. My point is it is impossible to tell from the story. I am immediately suspicious of studies from unknown sources drawing conclusions from unquoted facts.

[silentC]

Personally I'm a little sceptical of the findings of some of these studies as they are largely based on statistics. However, I'm also wary of the stuff and I take it with a grain of salt when the suppliers say it's safe. Treated pine has been a boon to the construction industry and they must sell tonnes of the stuff every day. A lot of people would have a lot to lose if it fell from favour.

It's bound to be a heated debate with some people swearing it's OK because they've never heard of anyone keeling over as a result of crawling around on the stuff, and others just as adamant that it's a cover up on the scale of the tobacco industry.

I avoid using it in situations where my kids will come into contact with it regularly. Our local playground is steel and plastic and the cubby house out the back is PVC and ply. However, there are many situations where it is the only thing available that will do the job and that's where I use it.

As far as the councils go, they are sensible to remove it from playgrounds if there is any question about the safety as they are very much exposed to future litigation if anyone ever proves that their kid developed cancer as a result of playing in a playground constructed with treated pine. Ask anyone who has ever been involved with asbestos. If you prefer, they're covering their arses.

[Joshua]

When the Olympic site was being built at Homebush there was loads of CCA pine delivered. Even some erected. Was it the government that had these pulled down and all CCA pine replaced with Clear treated pine. ??
The arsenic was labelled a threat to the environment. The dump that the olympics site was built on had too many chemicals allready. Why can't we all use clear treated timber.?? What is in it
Transylvanian timbers use to sell it.