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  1. #1
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    Feb 2008
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    Post Teaching help needed.

    Hi, I am a beginner Manual Arts (Industrial Technology & Design) teacher who has nevertaught or had to make anything out of wood before. I am studying to upgrade my skills as I trained as a Primary school teacher years ago and am having a crack at a new field in my profession. I am wanting to get a set of plans so that I can create a coffee table on my own before I have to try and teach it. I was wondering if any other teachers or keen woodworkers could help me out. I have drawn a basic diagram and wish to use mortise and tenon joints on the legs and rails. I will be using pine to begin with and will teach the students eventually how to use a mortise drill after they have completed one by hand.
    What is the correct procedure I should follow when constructing a coffee table is basically what I am after?
    Hoping someone can help.

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  3. #2
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    Jul 2004
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    I applaud you for taking this on but without extensive knowledge have no business teaching this subject.
    It is not something you can pick up in a jiffy on a forum on the net.
    No disrespect to you but the state of education in this country is clearly far worse than even I suspected and the education department seems to be adding to the problem.
    As far as I an concerned a teacher "having a crack" at some area of education that they are not well trained in is like a General Practitioner deciding to have a crack at Brain Surgery!

    Putting band aids like this over the wounds in education is no solution at all in fact it is preferable for it to fail and then someone might do something meaningful to fix it once and for all.

    Ross
    Ross
    "All government in essence," says Emerson, "is tyranny." It matters not whether it is government by divine right or majority rule. In every instance its aim is the absolute subordination of the individual.

  4. #3
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    Achap, it takes guts to ask for help, and for that I commend you, and now I am going to give you some sound advice, your ambitions far exceed your skill level and will cause someone an injury, and I know you dont want that...so here is an alternative, put the "coffee table " on the back burner until you have attended an adult course at a tafe and learned the right way first hand ......in the mean time stick to glue and screw projects that can be cut from patterns using a hand held jigsaw etc ...magazine holder,cup hanger , lazy susan , cutting boards....or even a few wooden toys ....simple safe stuff ...until you learn the safe methods of something a bit more involved such as a coffee table

  5. #4
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    Tolmie - Victoria
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    Achap,

    If you were a bit closer, I would invite you around for some lessons because I think more woodwork should be taught in schools even if there are not many experienced teachers around.

    You have quite a task ahead of you however I suggest that you read some good woodwork books like the Encylopedia of Furniture Making by Ernest Joyce.

    Ross, even when I was at school we were taught by unskilled teachers in Maths, Geography, History but my Woodwork teacher was skilled, trained and a good teacher.

    It is unsatisfactory for kids to be taught by unqualified staff but until our education systems are run properly and attract good staff, we are stuck with it unfortunately.

    Hope you are not too wet up there near Emerald.
    - Wood Borer

  6. #5
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Achap, It's not clear to me if you, have already been appointed as a manual arts teacher, or you are doing some training to be one? If it's the latter surely you should be being trained to do this as part of the training. If it's the later make sure you have a good lawyer on hand for when things go pear-shaped. All that aside I would also definitely recommend a year long course of some kind (eg TAFE) to learn how to to some of most dangerous things with a minimum risk.

  7. #6
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    My sister-in-law is an Art teacher. Several years ago when working in a Tech school in Melbourne she was given no option but to take the boys metalwork class. I was horrified. My father was a metal worker and I had seen him come home more than once with horrible cuts from sheet metal or filings in the eye from some incident or other.

    SIL's curriculum included things like making nail rakes. She had no experience of using metal cutters or drills etc. The closest tools she was confident with using was a sewing machine.

    SIL went to an introductory TAFE course and basically passed on what she learned each lesson. She was only one lesson ahead of her students. Not ideal, but thats what the system forces on children these days.

    Achap53, I suggest you do at least the same, go to a TAFE course and find the best one you can.

    Don't be under an illusion that doing the first joint by hand is going to be easy. Pine and handtools are not always an easy combination when the tools are not sharp. Sharpening is a crux of a lot of woodworking and working with blunt tools is often dangerous. If you are the teacher I presume you will be responsible for preparing the tools, you will need to be competent at that to first.

    In the meantime you might find some help in reading old woodworking texts and something basic like http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchi...gterrific.html.

  8. #7
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    Like others, I applaud your initiative, even if a bit naive. The number one priority for a woodworking teacher is to know how to prepare and safely handle a wide range of hand and power tools and pass that knowledge on to the students. If your description of your current skill set is correct (you may have left something relevant out?) you are running a serious risk of injury, either of yourself or your charges.

    Run, don't walk, to the nearest TAFE class, read some good instructive books, practice the skills needed to produce an acceptable range of projects (please don't start with a coffee table).

    Alternatively, you can be self-taught these skills and if that is your preference please plan on about 2-3 years of preparation time.

    I wish you well.
    Cheers,

    Bob



  9. #8
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    Welcome Achap

    I also think its commendable to move on your already a teacher and like many before you the government trains you and pays for it every step of the way ( oops sorry tax payer pays for it).

    Many trades people have become teachers so why not the other way round, some stink at the job others lavish in future they are creating but go unrecognised look at our own forum member Burnsy post on what he is teaching primary school children.

  10. #9
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    Nov 2007
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    Default Apprentice teacher

    Welcome to our forums Achap. You will have noticed that, if you have read through some of our posts here on different topics, we have heaps of fun, and we share heaps of knowledge and ideas.
    One thing is not always as obvious but you will have learnt from this thread that we are serious about safety and safe practice.
    Doing TAFE courses, sticking (pardon the pun) with glue and scew until you get your skill levels up is your safest and best option.
    I have been doing woodwork of one kind or another for abou 50 years, I am teacher but not a woodwork teacher. I would not attempt, with all my experience, to teach woodwork to a group of juveniles with out extra training.
    Don't be discouraged by the responses here. You've made acourageous start by admitting your shortcomings and seeking advice.
    All the best to you and keep us posted.

  11. #10
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    Achap, I want to encourage you. Have a go and get your hands dirty I say. As a relative novice myself, I know more about buggering up pieces of wood than I do about how to make fine furniture, but a couple of years ago I decided that I wanted to learn. Now the first thing I did was enrol in a part time fine woodworking course, which I would encourage because it is great fun and you learn heaps. You learn a lot about how to make things, and the 'right' way to do things (as opposed to destroying pieces of wood), and you also learn how not to kill or maim yourself (which can still happen anyway of course). But for me it is also a complete release from the pressures of daily life, and I look forward to my weekly classes more than anything else in my life.

    And every chance I get, I get into our workshop and have a go at something - which I frequently manage to mess up, but I don't care!

    As for teaching this stuff, I wouldn't dare. But then again I'm not a trained teacher. I've taken on many jobs (as in real jobs, for money) in my time that I was either under qualified for or not at all qualified for, and I've never found one that I couldn't do. So again, I would encourage you to have a go and do the best you can. Provided you can avoid legal liability for any of your students being injured of course... Seriously, playing with sharp things can sometimes result in injuries, and you want to encourage your students to avoid that as much as possible, and to avoid putting their hands near things that move fast (this is a good general principle, but especially for power tools).

    But it really isn't that hard to make mortise and tenon joints. Making them so that they actually fit together is hard, but you'll get the hang of it - it just might take a few practice attempts. But if you don't try you'll never learn how. When I was taught how to do them, the best thing I was taught is to cut the mortises as straight and square as you can, then cut the tenons to fit the mortises, rather than just measuring and cutting it all up front and hoping it fits. Creep up on getting the tenons the right size, rather than trying to cut them exact. Use a really sharp chisel, and push it rather than hitting it. Learn to pare a piece of wood flat with nothing but a chisel and you'll be starting to get to the right level of competence.

    Good luck with it.
    Bob C.

    Never give up.

  12. #11
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    Adelaide
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    Thirty years ago, when I arrived in Australia, I enrolled in a Masters degree, mainly to learn to translate and express correctly what I already knew. One month into the course and the lecturers had already shown that they thought that the students were lazy buggers not much motivated to learn. The students were openly saying that the lecturers were lazy buggers only one lecture ahead of them in competence. Three months into the course and I had ample evidence that all of them were right. The unpleasant part was to stick with it to the end, otherwise I would have been the loser.

    Just yesterday on TV they were saying that literacy and numeracy levels have not improved in the past 30 years. Go figure.

    All this to say, Achap, you have all my sympathy for your predicament, but none for your professional ethics if you accept a responsibility you are not competent to fulfil.
    Best wishes. Acknowledging a problem is the first step towards solving it. I really hope you will do the right thing.

  13. #12
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    Aug 2006
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    Muswellbrook NSW
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    Google is your friend. Have a look at some of these sites!

    http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/r...ex.php?cat=463

    http://www.sawhorseworkshop.com/linksplans.html

    http://www.stairking.com.au/web/wood...resources.html

    There are many more helpful sites with detailed plans. Mostly American but still good.

  14. #13
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    Achap, Welcome to the forum. I congratulate you on attempting this new endeavour to help our school children.

    From the comments so far... yes do a tafe course... you already have the ability to teach, all you now need is the practical side of your new found subject.

    I was 10 when my grandfather started on me (he was a builder and also a carpenter). This gave me a good grounding for my hobby that i have and still enjoy. So did my father and his brother, who was a carpenter & joiner.

    The point of this is, I was taught the basics (we only had hand tools) was blunt, poorly maintained and wrong tools for the job can cause horrific injuries. (Sharp ones cut). I learnt how to maintain and care for the tools we used. This is the first thing you are going to have to learn. Then you have to learn how to use those tools. It sounds like a lot of learning but it is well worth it.

    One again welcome and just keep asking questions as you learn.

    Steve.

    They say you learn by your mistakes. Think about it, some mistakes take a long time to get over. (see thumbnail picture)

    Steve

  15. #14
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    Dec 2004
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    Toowoomba Q 4350
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    Hi Achap53

    I'd like to suggest that you look into this area of the Forums

    We have a section just for Industrial Technology and I think you may find it useful. If my link doesn't work, Go back to the WoodWork Forums page, scroll to the bottom and look for the Industrial Technogoly area.

    cheers & good luck!

    Wendy

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by artme View Post
    Welcome to our forums Achap. You will have noticed that, if you have read through some of our posts here on different topics, we have heaps of fun, and we share heaps of knowledge and ideas.
    One thing is not always as obvious but you will have learnt from this thread that we are serious about safety and safe practice.
    Doing TAFE courses, sticking (pardon the pun) with glue and scew until you get your skill levels up is your safest and best option.
    I have been doing woodwork of one kind or another for abou 50 years, I am teacher but not a woodwork teacher. I would not attempt, with all my experience, to teach woodwork to a group of juveniles with out extra training.
    Don't be discouraged by the responses here. You've made acourageous start by admitting your shortcomings and seeking advice.
    All the best to you and keep us posted.

    Strange but I am not a teacher and would not hesitate to teach this subject. In fact I suspect not being a trained teacher is an advantage if you still remember the learning process yourself.
    The problem is they would not pay enough for me to even bother getting to work let alone teaching and the skill and responsibility involved. I also suspect what I deem safe practice would not be viewed as such by the current litigious generation of educators.
    Also I would not tolerate any behavior that might put the students or anyone else in harms way I would just refuse to teach that student from that point on. Probably a policy not in vogue these days how dare a teacher impose dicipline on a student.!

    Ross
    Ross
    "All government in essence," says Emerson, "is tyranny." It matters not whether it is government by divine right or majority rule. In every instance its aim is the absolute subordination of the individual.

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