Over-The-Counter Termite Baits - is there such a thing?

[jimbur]

Journeyman Mick said, "You also need to ensure that nothing bridges your barrier (tinber leaning against house wall) andf that you keep at least 1m around your house clear of garden beds and plants".

I was talking to a builder who had a complaint from the owner of a flat he'd built only two years earlier. They'd noticed the wall moving in the breeze. Termites had eaten out most of the plaster board.
The cause was a piece of driftwood they thought would look nice leaning against the outside wall!

Is it true that in FNQ one variety can fly in and doesn't need to build tunnels?
Jim

[journeyman Mick]

Jim,
there is at least one variety that swarms and flies, usually just before a rain storm. They will then try to establish a new colony but will still need access to water, usually by tunnelling to the ground. In one case that I worked on they established a colony on a timber boat and ate out a mast, they got fresh water out of the bilge. In another case I rebuilt a bathroom where termites had built a nest in a wall and accessed water from slow leak in the shower plumbing. There was a lady that posted here a few years back, who was somewhere in FNQ and apparently she had something called dry termites or similar that didn't even need any water but she couldn't give any more information and I've never heard of similar cases.

Mick

[jimbur]

Thanks Mick,
Jim

[Batpig]

Dear Sawdust Maker,

trouble is you need to id which you have before working out a plan

They're the sort that eat wood...

But I get your point. I've already worked out my plan, and I undertook some of the first half of it yesterday after taking my 1L bottle of Pigeon's 500 back and exchanging it for a 5L bottle of the same (cost: $155). At the recommended mixing ratio of 1 in 50, it will make up about 250L of treatment. When I got back home, we dug out a shallow trench beside the edge of the Laundry Slab downstairs (ie. where a wall frame has been built between the concrete stumps, complete with a couple of added studs that run straight up into the underside of the edge-bearer, and several folded-down antcaps). We then poured a fair bit of the poison into the trench and covered it back over. Make no mistake - the stuff is toxic. We also looked for other "vulnerabilities", such as where the door to the downstairs area has been hung by adding a jamb to the side of each of two stumps. Said jambs run straight down into the ground, and bypass the antcap at the top. So we pumped a fair bit of poison into the small gaps where the concrete floor meets the bottom of the jambs. Also, we sprayed the side of each and every external stump up and down along the narrow gap between it and the edge of the lattice panels in-between. Where we found termite tracks, we raked them out with a hook knife before spraying. We found some more live ones in doing so - they have now met their maker...

The general idea is to get them back down and away from the upper floor (they don't survive for very long when cut off from their nest), especially in the areas where the antcaps have been circumvented by wall framing, for long enough for the second half of the plan - the baiting system - to work...

My main problem, though, is still finding a pest controller who will drop the bait (of the CSIRO-developed type to which your refer - very untoxic to humans by the way...) into my own $10 stations for hopefully less than $100 a pop, rather than pay a Pest Controller about $900 or more to install about a dozen empty stations with some pine in them, plus $30 or more per visit to look into the tops of them, plus $99 or more each to bait them if there is any activity found inside. Highway robbery if you ask me. Could be why there's so many of the guys listed in the Yellow Pages...

To re-state the original question of the thread, therefore: Does anyone know of someone who sells the bait over-the-counter up here in SE Qld, who won't pull the old "It's poison mate. It's toxic! You need to be licenced to buy it..." krap on me if I go in there to buy some? Alternatively, does anyone definitely know of a Pest Controller who is happy to come out and bait a householder's own stations, on a station-by-station basis?

Thanks everyone so far,
Batpig.

[noelhi1]

I work in NT some year back and looked after the white ant problem in the mines and we use arsenic to kill the nest out and that we would find hundred's of metres away I know it's hard to come by now I have been hit by them just recently and ran out of arsenic I had left and can't buy it over the counter how ever came across some very old(1970 ) sheep dip powder which was made up of arsenic and it's working OK so far

[Batpig]

Well Folks,

I've looked as hard as I can into the whole matter of over-the-counter Termite Baits, and as far as I can see, there are only four outfits out there who will sell you Bait Stations and Treated Baits, as opposed to just Bait Stations accompanied by the casually made aside that you will have no trouble finding a Pest Controller who will insert Treated Baits into your Stations if Termite's go for the timber lures inside. "Pig's R's!" as that puppet on Rubbery Figures that looked like John Elliot used to say...

The weblinks to these four companies are as follows, along with some observations of my own:

http://www.envirobug.com.au/
Outbackrr's original suggestion as per his first post. The system seems expensive until you remember that ALL of the stations already contain the chemical bait that kills the little buggers, rather than just being filled with pieces of timber that you have to supplement with a Treated Bait if termites start munching on the timber inside. Replacement Treated Baits are also available from them, for a price that is the cheapest of the four.

http://termi-mite.com.au/
Exactly the same product as the Envirobug unit (as in coming out of the same factory, but with a different sticker on it) except dearer for both stations and baits.

http://www.pest-free-naturally.com/index.php
Different style of station altogether to those used by the above two companies. Stations are cheaper to buy, but contain no Treated Bait. Treated Baits are a LOT dearer than those of the above two companies.

http://www.termitetrap.com.au/index.htm
A different style of station again - is made by Hills Industries and available at their clearance outlets. Interesting design. Once again though, stations are cheaper than Envirobug's, but are not pre-treated. Treated Baits are a fair bit dearer than Envirobug's.

As far as I was concerned, it came down to EnviroBug and TermiteTrap. The EnviroBug units are a little more discreet in the ground, compared to the Termite Trap units (which are mostly out of the ground), and being set up for pre-treatment before installation (as opposed to "after detection of termites"), the EnviroBugs eliminate the risk of frightening off the little buggers when inserting a Treated Bait after they have been observed within. They are apparently easily startled. To top it off, if you do the Maths (yes, Maths! Not bluddy Math! There is an "s" at the end of Mathematics you know...) eight treated EnviroBugs cost less than six treated Termite Traps...

So I grabbed a bus into the Brisbane Home Show this afternoon, had a talk about the system with the lovely lady (the chap's wife) who was manning (womanning?) the EnviroBug booth, flashed some cash, whereupon she budged on price for me. I suggest that if any of you up or down here in Brisbane are looking for something along the lines of a DIY baiting system, then get in there to the show while it's still on and flash some cash... (the rest of the show was drop-dead boring by the way. The Woodwork Show absolutely creams it - even if the exhibitors cram too much gear into too small an area each year. The venue manager should bite the bullet and let up on them, and give them more space for less money, and I guarantee that you will get more woodworkers coming back each year because there would be more gear and the whole thing would be more comfortable to boot! More admissions equals more money for the organisers. Anyhow, I digress...)

When I got home I pulled the EnviroBugs apart and had a good look at their innards. Pretty simple - but I like the concept. Significantly different to Sentricon & Exterra stations, etc. Anyway, I'm going to put them in over at my brother's place tomorrow (except for one that is going dead smack in the middle of the back lean-too where I found the little buggers munching on my own timber late last year, and another in the backyard garden next to this log that I just know will have them in it when I turn it upside down). Will let you all know if I get some "nibbles" (it's a bit like fishing, hey!)

Special thanks to Outbackrr for the link! And just remember everyone, if they're getting stuck into your frame, don't just put these things in by themselves - first save your frame by spraying the little buggers down off it with something like Pigeon's, and you should then have more luck with baiting them to boot, because they'll be looking for a replacement food source...

Best Wishes,
Batpig.

[grahamj]

Well Folks,

I've looked as hard as I can into the whole matter of over-the-counter Termite Baits, and as far as I can see, there are only four outfits out there who will sell you Bait Stations and Treated Baits, as opposed to just Bait Stations accompanied by the casually made aside that you will have no trouble finding a Pest Controller who will insert Treated Baits into your Stations if Termite's go for the timber lures inside. "Pig's R's!" as that puppet on Rubbery Figures that looked like John Elliot used to say...

The weblinks to these four companies are as follows, along with some observations of my own:

http://www.envirobug.com.au/
Outbackrr's original suggestion as per his first post. The system seems expensive until you remember that ALL of the stations already contain the chemical bait that kills the little buggers, rather than just being filled with pieces of timber that you have to supplement with a Treated Bait if termites start munching on the timber inside. Replacement Treated Baits are also available from them, for a price that is the cheapest of the four.

http://termi-mite.com.au/
Exactly the same product as the Envirobug unit (as in coming out of the same factory, but with a different sticker on it) except dearer for both stations and baits.

http://www.pest-free-naturally.com/index.php
Different style of station altogether to those used by the above two companies. Stations are cheaper to buy, but contain no Treated Bait. Treated Baits are a LOT dearer than those of the above two companies.

http://www.termitetrap.com.au/index.htm
A different style of station again - is made by Hills Industries and available at their clearance outlets. Interesting design. Once again though, stations are cheaper than Envirobug's, but are not pre-treated. Treated Baits are a fair bit dearer than Envirobug's.

As far as I was concerned, it came down to EnviroBug and TermiteTrap. The EnviroBug units are a little more discreet in the ground, compared to the Termite Trap units (which are mostly out of the ground), and being set up for pre-treatment before installation (as opposed to "after detection of termites"), the EnviroBugs eliminate the risk of frightening off the little buggers when inserting a Treated Bait after they have been observed within. They are apparently easily startled. To top it off, if you do the Maths (yes, Maths! Not bluddy Math! There is an "s" at the end of Mathematics you know...) eight treated EnviroBugs cost less than six treated Termite Traps...

So I grabbed a bus into the Brisbane Home Show this afternoon, had a talk about the system with the lovely lady (the chap's wife) who was manning (womanning?) the EnviroBug booth, flashed some cash, whereupon she budged on price for me. I suggest that if any of you up or down here in Brisbane are looking for something along the lines of a DIY baiting system, then get in there to the show while it's still on and flash some cash... (the rest of the show was drop-dead boring by the way. The Woodwork Show absolutely creams it - even if the exhibitors cram too much gear into too small an area each year. The venue manager should bite the bullet and let up on them, and give them more space for less money, and I guarantee that you will get more woodworkers coming back each year because there would be more gear and the whole thing would be more comfortable to boot! More admissions equals more money for the organisers. Anyhow, I digress...)

When I got home I pulled the EnviroBugs apart and had a good look at their innards. Pretty simple - but I like the concept. Significantly different to Sentricon & Exterra stations, etc. Anyway, I'm going to put them in over at my brother's place tomorrow (except for one that is going dead smack in the middle of the back lean-too where I found the little buggers munching on my own timber late last year, and another in the backyard garden next to this log that I just know will have them in it when I turn it upside down). Will let you all know if I get some "nibbles" (it's a bit like fishing, hey!)

Special thanks to Outbackrr for the link! And just remember everyone, if they're getting stuck into your frame, don't just put these things in by themselves - first save your frame by spraying the little buggers down off it with something like Pigeon's, and you should then have more luck with baiting them to boot, because they'll be looking for a replacement food source...

Best Wishes,
Batpig.

Hi, Graham J here from Termi-Mite .com.au,

Just a little clarification. The Enviro-Bug baiting system is a direct copy of the Termi-Mite system and is in direct contravention of copyright and previously signed agreements. Whilst there were previously negotiations between the 2 parties that association no longer exists. The companies and manufacturing premises are completely separate and unconnected. Pricewise our promotional prices are virtually identical. However many changes have been made to the Termi-Mite System since the copy was made and research and field testing is ongoing to further improve the system plus customers receive back up reminders and an education program to
help make their properties "termite unfriendly."
Cheers, Grahamj "Quote"

[Coptotermes]

Have seen and treated many homes where people have tried to DIY on termite treatment and it nearly always end in tears.

Baits are great for treating active termites and monitoring on an ongoing basis, however it takes a bit of practice, time and knowing what species of termites you are dealing with.

If you are dealing with Schedorhinotermes species or even Nasutitermes species and the DIY baits are using one of the traditional active ingredients the cost of continually DIY baiting with some of these products will quickly get out of hand.

If you are truely short of money talk to a pest manager and then if you want to, make your own stations, and then get the pest manager to dust the active termites with a product like Termidor Dust, (Only currently available in Australia) if the pest manager deems it ok and there are enough termites to dust.

Then you have to think about protection against the next colony that comes along and while products like Termidor and Premise are great (but admittedly costly) there is nothing wrong depending on site conditions and termite pressure (speak to the pest manager), with a homeowner self monitoring what ever inground monitoring stations you have every 6-8 weeks on an ongoing basis.

Re Glennet buying Termidor, legally you can probably purchase it, (though this is the first time I've heard of anyone doing it) but with the label saying TO BE USED BY LICENSED PEST CONTROL OPERATORS ONLY um can you legally personally use it,(hence Globes reluctance) if you don't have a licence. (unless the label was different back then)

Drywood termites as mentioned by jimbur are different and thankfully so far comparitively rare in Australian homes (Queensland mostly) and have tiny colonies initially self contained but with time can become lots of impossible to find multiple colonies as I understand it (hence the need to sometimes tent the whole house and fumigate) and obtaining moisture from as little as a single piece of timber with a normal moisture content, totally different from subterranean termites which need a consistent source of moisture either by contact with the ground or something like a consistent leak which would mean ground contact isn't required.

Take a couple of the soldier caste (the ones with the darker heads)in a bottle to a few pest managers to get them identified, if they can't identify them, head elsewhere.

Research, research and then do some more research, and then get a pest manager to propose a treatment, if you do enough research you will soon know if they know what they are doing.

Please don't try to DIY treat active termites especially with repellant termiticides as sadly you may think you have been successful and a few months or longer later they will bob up elsewhere, get a good pest manager in.

Only just found this board and advice may be a bit late but hope this helps.

[SAISAY]

We bought "Pidgeon's Pest Controller 500" at Mitre10 and it has worked very well for us up here in North Queensland.
Wolffie

[Barney2000]

Have seen and treated many homes where people have tried to DIY on termite treatment and it nearly always end in tears.

Baits are great for treating active termites and monitoring on an ongoing basis, however it takes a bit of practice, time and knowing what species of termites you are dealing with.

If you are dealing with Schedorhinotermes species or even Nasutitermes species and the DIY baits are using one of the traditional active ingredients the cost of continually DIY baiting with some of these products will quickly get out of hand.

If you are truely short of money talk to a pest manager and then if you want to, make your own stations, and then get the pest manager to dust the active termites with a product like Termidor Dust, (Only currently available in Australia) if the pest manager deems it ok and there are enough termites to dust.

Then you have to think about protection against the next colony that comes along and while products like Termidor and Premise are great (but admittedly costly) there is nothing wrong depending on site conditions and termite pressure (speak to the pest manager), with a homeowner self monitoring what ever inground monitoring stations you have every 6-8 weeks on an ongoing basis.

Re Glennet buying Termidor, legally you can probably purchase it, (though this is the first time I've heard of anyone doing it) but with the label saying TO BE USED BY LICENSED PEST CONTROL OPERATORS ONLY um can you legally personally use it,(hence Globes reluctance) if you don't have a licence. (unless the label was different back then)

Drywood termites as mentioned by jimbur are different and thankfully so far comparitively rare in Australian homes (Queensland mostly) and have tiny colonies initially self contained but with time can become lots of impossible to find multiple colonies as I understand it (hence the need to sometimes tent the whole house and fumigate) and obtaining moisture from as little as a single piece of timber with a normal moisture content, totally different from subterranean termites which need a consistent source of moisture either by contact with the ground or something like a consistent leak which would mean ground contact isn't required.

Take a couple of the soldier caste (the ones with the darker heads)in a bottle to a few pest managers to get them identified, if they can't identify them, head elsewhere.

Research, research and then do some more research, and then get a pest manager to propose a treatment, if you do enough research you will soon know if they know what they are doing.

Please don't try to DIY treat active termites especially with repellant termiticides as sadly you may think you have been successful and a few months or longer later they will bob up elsewhere, get a good pest manager in.

Only just found this board and advice may be a bit late but hope this helps.

Spot on Copto's...
DIY Termite Baiting, and DIY Termite treatments are two COMPLETELY different aspects of Termite Control. Installation of DIY baits can be installed easily enough, HOWEVER treatment of live baits is a job only for the experienced Termite Technician. Termites are difficult to locate in many cases, and to risk a failed DIY Termite treatment which you might think has been successful, might have just driven the termites to another location, and might not be located until substantial damage has been caused.

Baiting has become a popular method of termite management, and yes, we manufacture and supply Termicure Termite Baits to the Domestic, and professional Termite Control market, so baiting is an emerging market which we are capitalising on, however, I am a firm beleiver that the protection of man made structures is far more effective with the use of a Termidor Barrier. We provide our baits as an alternative to those who may not be financial enough to have a barrier installed. This is of course dependent on construction methods.

Picture this. A house is treated at year 1 with a Termidor Barrier $4000. Full protection 24h, 7 days. Follow up requirements are only an annual inspection(possibly more frequent if recommended)

On the other hand, a Monitored Baiting System $4000.
Monthly monitoring and servicing is usually included for the first year, however following years will be charged at anywhere between $800-$1300 per year. Do the sums, and take into account that someone will be disturbing you or your tennants monthly for inspection/service.

We provide baits as a cheaper alternative, only when the ultimate (Termidor Barrier) is out of reach, or construction type limits Barrier installation.

Treatment with insect growth regulators is also something which could be debated.
Insect growth regulators are very time consuming for treatments, particularly with the introduction of Fipronil in Termidor dust/liquid. An active bait treated with Termidore, should provide colony elimination within 4 weeks. Insect Growth regulators can take more than 6 months.... The only advantage I can see is that the breakdown of the colony can be seen during monthly inspections, where as Termidore cannot.

We have manufactured our baits with the latest treatment methods mind, and have produced a product which is exceptional for the aggregation and treatment of termites.

You can view them at www.termicure.com.au and even though we beleive that our product is superior to others in the market, we don't for one second pretend that our baits or any others are in any way, as effective as a Chemical Barrier in protecting your property.


Talk to your Pest Manager to get the right advice specific to your homes construction. Not every Pesty has the same views as me, and that's fine. There is no right or wrong, it's just a matter of educated opinion......

[lampet]

Any new discussion about termites may best be conducted here

lampet