Nick's Eureka 155

[nickpullen]

Hi everyone.

Firstly, a big thanks to Michael Storer for creating this beautiful design and then to all the other contributors on this forum, Im sold on the Eurika.

Ok, a bit about me... Im 26, been living in Aus for 4 years now, migrated from South Africa. Love the outdoor lifestyle in Aus. Ive dabbled in some minor wood work, and building model airplanes and even a real life home built aircraft with my old man... So I have some techinical skill... I think...

I have ordered my set of plans from duckflatwoodenboats.com this week and I'm eagerly awaiting them. I have also found a local supplier of marine ply for $43 per 4mm x 2440 x 1220 sheet. After reading all the pages on here about the Eureka and what size to go with I have decided to try a 4mm thick ply.

However I would like to cover the bottom in some F/G, 2oz cloth for the extra strength on the 3ply ply... BUT, I have an idea, some of the model aircraft guys have vacuum bagged there composite wings, basically sucking out any extra resin, giving a stronger/lighter end product. Here is a link explaining a bit more. http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/vaccuum.htm
Im pondering doing the same with the outer hull of the Eureka.... Thoughts?

I will get the ply and start the marking out and cutting first... Can anyone suggest a basic list of materials that would be good to order from duckflatwoodenboats.com? I was thinking something along these lines:

5-252-5Epoxy Kit 3L Bote-Cote Stnd
as per Michaels website....

5-254-5Filler Fillet/Glue 400g 2L
too much? too little?

5-255-11F/G Cloth 93gsm 2.3oz 965mm
5m, for the outer hull.

5-256-9F/G Tape 155gsm 50mm
25m only? as im glassing the outer hull....

Hows that? quantities OK?

Thanks, and I look forward to sharing my building experience with all of you.

Nick

[Boatmik]

Howdy Nick,

Nice to have you aboard.

The 4mm ply does make the boat a tiny bit more tricky to build - basically don't pull the stitching too tight to start with and put the threetemporary spreaders in place to hold the boat at the right width as early as possible.

If you stitch tight and put the spreaders in later you can end up with a concavity in the hull bottom. Not critical to performance or handling, but nice to avoid if possible.

You can either use glass tape on the inside or a number of builders have used a different scheme internally. They have used epoxy fillets on the bottom chine for its full length and in the cockpit area of the upper chine. The buoyancy tank area of the upper chine is glass taped. It will never be visible and there is no angle for a fillet to go into.

Glass tape should be 50mm.

Depends on what you want to do. With 4mm you will have to move the holes a bit closer together.

The glass cloth - if glassing the outside the glass does not need to cover the whole topside panel. Just the bottom, the bilge and then only 25mm onto the topside panel - that way it holds all the joins together.

Epoxy - I would probably consider getting 6litres. there will be a bit more epoxy if the bottom is glassed and you have to be real careful to do everything with 3 litres anyhow.

If filleting the inside - 2 litres of powder will just be enough.

Hope this helps
Michael

By the way, I got a copy of Australian Amateur Boatbuilder magazine today and the full page colour ad on the back cover is a Eureka - the first one that was built light.

[Tor]

Hey Nick,

Emerald Pete recently finished one of these and I went for a paddle in a local dam. He built it at the Duck Flat Boat boat building course. Nice canoe but not quite big enough for me and the family!!! Apparently from the shore we "went off like a shot" have to say that it felt quite relaxed from where I was.

A couple of observations, the internal fillets may be strong but I didn't think they looked pretty in a interior with a raw finish and although it can be difficult to feather the resin at the edges of the tape I still think tape looks nicer unless you're gong to paint it.

Vacuum bagging seems extreme to squeeze out the resin. Isn't this application more appropriate for veneers where you want an even epoxy bond between sheets of wood. In this case where will the excess epoxy go. I don't think you need it for this, but I could be wrong.

Anyway have fun with the build and keep us updated with plenty of pictures.

Tor

[bitingmidge]

Tor,

It is quite possible to do a very tidy filletted joint. The secret is to mask both sides of the join. In my view it takes a lot less work and cleanup than a taped joint, but I guess it's differences like this that make the world such a great place to live!

I've got some pretty clear instructions (I think) here.



Vac bagging is used when gluing two sheets together, or veneers onto surfaces, because it's a really easy way to maintain even clamping pressure across the whole work piece.

Cheers,

P

[Tor]

Mr Midge,

No argument with the neatness and to Pete's credit they were very tidy, yours are quite good in comparison .

As you say wouldn't be right if we were all the same.

Tor

[Boatmik]

Also some people like the look of fillets and others don't. Go whichever way rings your bell.

I didn't answer about vacuum bagging - you won't use very much resin at all for the glassing and it is put on in a controlled way. Vacuum bagging is most useful when there are thick or complex layups are being used and the resin is to be added in one hit.

The method used in the plans relies on putting enough epoxy down to hold the glass in place (so it goes clear) then when the first coat starts to become tacky the next one is added and so on until the weave is filled - so it is a controlled process.

Vacuum bagging allows you to do the resin part in one hit and save a bit of time and reduce the risk of the fibres floating around in too much resin. It is not a possibility if you follow the Eureka plan method.

MIK

[nickpullen]

Hi

Thanks for the comments... I am still unaware of the build method used, still waiting on the plans... So I just coming up wth ideas, but as I read somewhere, just follow the plans... hahah

thanks again chaps.

Any Idea how long the plans take to get sent? I ordered it on Tuesday, and nothing has come off my credit card yet...

Cheers

[Boatmik]

Normally they are very fast.

Did you order the PDF email plans or the paper plan.

The email plan you should have had within a working day. Paper should have been debited.

Go to www.duckflatwoodenboats.com and email them to check.

MIK

[Daddles]

Hey Nick, just a thought, but I wonder if you aren't complicating this boat building a wee bit. Boats are essentially simple beasts and you don't need to get all hi-tech with them.

In this case, why go to 4mm ply with an associated layer of heavy glass (not to mention your vacuum bagging and all)? I don't know what the plans suggest, but slightly thicker timber coated with poxy and paint will give a perfectly serviceable craft.

Just a thought. In boat building, usually the first hint that you've done something wrong is when the build gets complicated.

Richard

[nickpullen]

HI.

Ok... so you reckon 6mm? with just the seams taped and then the whole boat coated in epoxy resin to seal it off?

Wouldn’t the 4mm + 2oz glass be lighter and equally as strong as the 6mm with just tape and epoxy? At this point I haven’t purchased any materials, so I’m open to persuasion either way...

Thanks.

Oh, the payment came off last night... WHOOO HOOO..

[Daddles]

HI.

Ok... so you reckon 6mm? with just the seams taped and then the whole boat coated in epoxy resin to seal it off?

Wouldn’t the 4mm + 2oz glass be lighter and equally as strong as the 6mm with just tape and epoxy? At this point I haven’t purchased any materials, so I’m open to persuasion either way...

Thanks.

I was only throwing in thoughts Nick. I don't know the design and I don't know canoes. Go with Mik's advice whatever that is

I was struck more with the vacuum bagging. The more I work with boats and the more I work with experienced builders with a commercial background (ie, bloke's who've done it for real as opposed to hobbyists like you and me), the more I've come to watch out for complication. There is always an easier way of doing something and it often produces a better result. The yanks are particularly good at complicating boats.

Richard

[nickpullen]

Thanks Richard,
I, as a complete novice, value your input, your knowledge is invaluable to me...

I’ve dropped the vacuum idea, with Mik's explanation, I realise it is not necessary in the Eureka construction.

The reason I’m wanting 4mm is for the weight aspect.... And the fiberglass for some protection against submerged objects...

[Boatmik]

Exactly - and 4mm ply makes sense with 2oz glass.

BTW have you seen the big ad on the back page of AABB. It is for WEST epoxy and displays a Eureka in its natural environment - and even gives credit to the designer! Very good of them

MIK

[nickpullen]

So 4mm + 2oz glass it will be, with tape on the inside, I don’t like the look of the fillets, and I think the copper stiches will be cool to see as well...

Mik, got a question, when I glass the outside. I’m thinking I should cut out the glass cloth using the bottom panel and bilge panels as templates, making the glass cut-outs 1inch larger than the panels, I'll do this prior to stitching, that way I get the overlap on the joins and the glass lays flat on the hull with the different angles. I hope you understand what I’m getting at here...

Then when I’m ready to glass the outside, I can lay the one piece of cloth cut from the bottom "template" and then do the two bilge panels.. That way it avoids funny folds and such that would occur from using a single large piece of cloth?

Or am I complicating the boat building again?

Thanks.

PS> Im going to the news agent to see if I can find a copy of the AABB after work...

[Boatmik]

Nah Nick,

That defeats the purpose. The glass covers the bottom and bilge panel completely in one hit but overlaps around 25mm onto the topside panel as well.

You see, the big advantage is that there is only one fibreglass edge that has to be smoothed down to match the plywood.

You will need to cut a couple of 2" wide ribbons out of the light glass to put over the topside panels where they join at the stems.

On the inside of the boat use the manufactured glass tape - the inside is the most vulnerable side for the reinforcing.

MIK