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  1. #1
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    Default Solar powered propulsion and low drag boats suitable for it

    In the beginning there was person power, followed by wind power, then fossil fuel power. There are some low powered electric motors out there.

    But is anyone aware of developments towards solar powered electric boats that can get up and go..... ? not just your troll motors and the like doing maybe 5 knots down the Murray (if there is enough water to float a boat that is) I mean a boat that can go out to sea.....
    "May your dreams of today
    be the reality of tomorrow"

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  3. #2
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    There is a full size solar powered ferry working in Sydney harbour out of Circular Quay.

  4. #3
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    Whoa !!!
    Len, that sounds like one big boat, maybe a bit bigger than I had in mind... but seems like solar has or is being developed.....

    Just looking at options for the next one.... like to cover all bases... and fuel is getting a bit expensive.... but then again I assume so would a solar powered engine with grunt
    "May your dreams of today
    be the reality of tomorrow"

  5. #4
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    There was some discussion about this on one of the fishing forums.

    I think the first thing would be to have an efficient hull.

    the other consideration is how much run time per day is expected.

    there was a bit of napkin maths done & the consensus was that it could be viable for lake fishing, perhaps, whre you would travel to a location & remain there for an extended period.

    the top or the roof of the boat would have to be wall to wall solar cells.

    The big problem is the derating factors you need to consider, you never get the full rated output from a solar cell, unless you are just south of darwin in the height of summer, and you can only count on the equavalent of 4 full hour s of sunlight in a day.

    traction or propulsion is a very high drain application.......

    The viability would improve considerably if it was some sort of hybred machine.
    charge from the mains, or from an onboard generator and use the solar as a sugnificant supliment..... that could be mage viable for an all day run.


    I'd like to know "the truth" about this " solar ferry"......quite often these things arent as sucessfull as they are made to appear......do they charge the batteries from the mains at night?

    cheers
    Any thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
    Most powertools have sharp teeth.
    People are made of meat.
    Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.

  6. #5
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    Quite a valid point concerning the surface area that would be required to accomodate sufficient solar panels.... didn't think of that one straight up....
    "May your dreams of today
    be the reality of tomorrow"

  7. #6
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    Don't forget the boat that did Adelaide to Stansbury a few years back by solar power - Mik'll know more about that. The thing with solar is the lack of speed, okay if you're into gentle cruising but not if you're into a Hartley with a monster outboard (I seem to remember some old git who fitted a 20hp outboard to a 10ft Hartley dinghy ).

    Personally, I think you're better off fitting a small diesel in a well designed displacement hull.

    Actually, rescuing a 50's clinker cabin cruiser, tossing the clapped out Holden and fitting a 20hp diesel during the restoration would be the best thing you could do. I'll even tow the brute from my front yard to yours

    Richard

  8. #7
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    Daddles,
    No doubt Mik will come in at some stage with some info on that one... ?

    As for a 50's clinker - wrong colour and I need a challenge not a life long hobby - besides waiting for someone to perfect bending timber with steam as the old girl has lots and lots of ribs that would need replacing

    < Sad but back to work from tomorrow >
    "May your dreams of today
    be the reality of tomorrow"

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    < Sad but back to work from tomorrow >
    **points**
    **hysterical laughter**

    [\sympathy]

    Richard

  10. #9
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    Howdy Soundman,

    I think your suspicions about the solar tour boat on Sydney Harbour are well founded - but it is still a step in the right direction.
    http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=107
    The size of the cell area is small relative to the boat and when the sun is to the side only half the cells look like they will catch anything. What about when the sun is in the wrong direction so the effect of the sails could be in the opposite direction from the motors. Also the hull is not very optimised for low drag. No emissions - means shore power I very much suspect - particularly if they run at night too (tour boat!). If a sunny day gives the boat 5 knots on solar (with or without passengers!?!) only it ain't going to leave a lot for powering at night.

    Light and simple and a low payload makes more sense in a solar boat.

    Now to more modest boats...

    The problem with going to sea for more than short periods is that you need to overpower the boat.

    It might take only a few horspower on something light and slim and shallow ...

    Can I say that again ... light and slim and shallow

    And once more ... light and slim and shallow


    ... to keep it moving at an OK speed in good conditions. But going to sea means that you have to be ready for bad conditions too. And that means you might need HEAPS more power for extended periods - if you've spent time on the sea, you know exactly what I mean.

    So the infernal combustion engine makes a lot of sense. However it can be in the form of a generator as Soundman suggested - and that is the solution for the Mundoo/Nomad.

    There is also a problem with getting enough surface area for solar cells - the Nomad 3 has much of the roof covered. relative to displacement and low speed drag I would suggest it has more solar cells than the solar tour boat.



    The break even point in power under solar only for the Mundoo is around 4 knots on an sunny day - an average sunny day - not a super hot sizzler. Now if we DOUBLE the amount of solar cells we can probably double the power but it will only increase the speed by about 40% - 5.6 knots on a clear sunny day and FLAT water and not much breeze. Four times the area and we get 8 knots in the same perfect conditions.

    More wind, more sea and less sun ...

    There is a capacity for getting a much lighter and simpler boat to have the same collection area by reducing the expectation for living space and ditching most of the batteries - that is my feeling for the best solution at the moment in terms of range and freedom of operation and seakeeping.

    Consider that such a boat would go with with a 10 or 15hp four stroke high thrust outboard with its low fuel consumption for max speeds of 10 knots and a great ability to punch into a chop. That is what you are up against.

    So the problem for boats is the small collection area. A multihull can have a much bigger collection area, but has more windage (wind drag) and multihull (and really the monohulls I am talking about above) performance is highly weight dependent - so loading them up with batteries doesn't make sense either.

    However ... there are quite a few hire sailboats in the UK being supplied with Electric inboards using battery power.

    There are lots of small simple boats using trolling motors.

    Keep the boat simple and the drag down, supplement solar with a generator (one of the nice 4 stroke ones) and it starts to be an interesting equation.

    Best wishes
    Michael

  11. #10
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    Michael,
    Thanks for that convincing input as to what one could expect from solar in boats...... looks like I'm still stuck with fossil power for the next one. Becoming a fossil myself I have discounted sail.... on a body physical sense.

    I am pleased with your : "But going to sea means that you have to be ready for bad conditions too. And that means you might need HEAPS more power for extended periods -...........So the infernal combustion engine makes a lot of sense."
    It might slow comments from Daddles on my last choice of motor

    "May your dreams of today
    be the reality of tomorrow"

  12. #11
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    BTW ...

    The other way to look at it is to go through the same process as with the Mundoo/Nomad.

    USe the boat on a river (less wind and waves).

    And look to see how often shore power is available on your trips - the owners of that boat worked out that it would be daily. But they have found that they are much more independent than they thought as they are able to stop somewhere nice by the riverbank and mooch around and relax and HOLIDAY. And while they do that the batteries recharge.

    Michael

  13. #12
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    My dream is a go-anywhere-boat...... river, lake, gulf etc.
    I know how fast things can change out in the Gulf StVincent and believe in having good 'reserve' power available.... a versatile craft.....

    The sea is where the heart lays.... be it local or possibly interstate on retirement.....
    "May your dreams of today
    be the reality of tomorrow"

  14. #13
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    Simple, basic, light, narrow, shallow, simple accommodation, minimum of gear. Minimum of on board electric use.

  15. #14
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    Simple is good Mik

    While I'm at it... what are your thoughts on the use of Oregon in boats... seems lots of positives and a few negatives I've found on the web.
    Reason being I've just come into possession of a reasonable amount of the stuff - straight and clear

    Ply on frame 18' is the likely version to build next.
    "May your dreams of today
    be the reality of tomorrow"

  16. #15
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    There should be no criticism of Oregon (Douglas Fir) anywhere on the net for boatbuilding.

    PAR and some other Nth Americans might have something to say.

    In Trad building it makes quite nice planking - a lot of high quality Sydney boats were built in Oregon planking (quarter sawn) over spotted gum frames.

    If it is not quarter sawn for planking then it can be difficult to sand flat as the dark parts of the grain are very hard to sand and plane. It is not a big problem with pieces for modern construction as the surface areas of gunwales, chine logs etc is usually quite small.

    Oregon itself makes excellent high strength glued structures.

    If you go the epoxy or other glued method - it glues really nicely and has excellent strength to weight.

    If you are going epoxy gluing and epoxy coating ... even non durable timbers can give durable results - so no worries.

    Only downside is that it can be a bit splintery - but at the same time that allows it to absorb huge amounts of energy when involved in an impact.

    Nothing wrong with oregon at all.

    Michael

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