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  1. #1
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    Default Qld Trade tools table saw

    Please don't bite my head off. I've been reading the threads here and haven't seen mention of this. QTT's website is pretty hopeless so unless you happen to go in there you may not know about it.

    I was in there yesterday poking about and noticed a table saw. I'm no expert and not making any recomendation I'm just mentioning what I saw for peoples information.

    It looked like 12", had a cast iron top, the left extension was pressed steel the right was a cast iron router table (it said router not included but I don't know if that was the router or the table as well), it had a pressed steel stand and knobs front and side to I assume adjust the blade. $770 or there abouts.

    I'm sure it's not in the same class as the multi thousand $ machines you have been talking about, but it looked ok to me and might suit someone shopping at that price point.

    Actually it looked a bit like this:

    http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...stockCode=W452

    but with a pressed steel left extension and a cast router table to the right. About $70 more, but if it included the router table that would be a fair deal I think.

    Some stuff at QTT is cheap, very cheap, some really isn't. The basic makita 9 3/4" saw is $269 or something, which is a pretty good price.

    I just thought it was worth mentioning.
    Last edited by damian; 24th June 2008 at 11:08 AM. Reason: added link

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  3. #2
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    G'day Damian,

    There was another thread that started up sort-of on the subject (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=74232) but it didn't get very far...

    But that sure sounds like a lot of saw for the money! The biggest bugbear though: Dust Control... If it's a Contractor-style machine, the motor will be hanging out of the back off the end of the drive-belt, which would be flinging sawdust everywhere! Just out of interest, did the Router Wing have a Fence?

    You're spot-on about Trade Tools - the website is certainly not kept up to date, and you can't always assume the prices are the lowest on the name-brand gear...

    Best Wishes,
    Batpig.

  4. #3
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    Yes the router had a fence seperate to the saw. Both fences seemed to me to be acceptable.

    I didn't climb round the back of it, it was stuck in a pile of other stuff and I didn't know that was an issue. I assumed the box was enclosed all round and you could put an extractor on it.

    It looks similar to but not exactly like several of the ones on the mao shin link. Sheesh I wish I'd taken a photo now. I thought it said 12" on the sticker.

    How are they for accuracy ? the dust issue could be fixed one way or another. I read the whole thread on Big Sheds table saw epic, but there have got to be people here looking in the lower price range ?

    ...dances with sawblades..
    I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
    We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
    Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?

  5. #4
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    Hi - I started the other thread on teh 12" table saw. I had another look the other day and I am impressed with the quality of the table saw anyway for $1195 from memory. The biggest drawback for me was the 2HP motor, although by my calculations it is a genuine 2HP unlike many of the 2250W input power 3HP output claims by others, I suspect it is like the Jet 1 3/4HP motor. The other questionable point was the sturdiness of the saw mounts etc - not up there with the big castings of some saws and this may be the reason I don't buy it. Another possible problem is that they use the same of everything for the 10" and 12" table saws so the blade rpm seems a bit high to me at 4200rpm for a 12" blade. (info from the spec sheet in handbook)

    The saw you looked at I am sure has the same top end components , castings etc as the full cabinet saw with the same router table and from memory it does not have the motor hanging out the back like other contractor saws. On the cabinet saw there is a sliding top to the left of the blade made of pressed or cast aluminium BUT is runs on guides on a cast iron support - very solid indeed.

    Another point is that it appears to be made in Taiwan - well the motor is anyway and the importer link on the other thread indicates that it is Taiwanese also - from experience Taiwanese tools are far superior to the Chinese at this stage for quality - that is why Hafco even advertise equipment made in Taiwan.

    If you get one I would be fascinated to find out how it goes.

    Billy

  6. #5
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    Ok I was in again today and I had a better look. Your seriously not going to believe this.

    The router table is on the RHS. As far as I could see it is the same as the TSC-10HBRW carbatec sell for $169, plus the fence TSC-10HBRF $219 and a 10" saw something like the carbatec CT-10ST $995 but without the sliding table. I confirmed everything but the router is included and it has a rip fence similar to the carbatec machine. The left extension table is pressed steel.

    All this for $779!!! I don't work for them or anything.

    The motor is off to the side of the blade but not in line with the arbor so it's either a short belt or gearbox. The motor tilts with the blade. Cast iron top, pressed steel cabinet with dust port (the cabinet will leak via the handle openings and various others but dust should be sucked) and pressed legs. There is a hinged box on the left to clear the motor and allow access. I assume having the motor on the blade assy will cause vibration in the blade, but if you can't afford a proper cabinet saw, or don't want to, this is an incredible value. I'm actually considering buying one instead of a band saw and mounting my incra on the left extension. I am pretty sure it was a 2 hp induction motor. Table looked flat.

    Worth a look.
    I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
    We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
    Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?

  7. #6
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    Dear Damian,

    Uncanny as it may sound, I was in at Trade Tools myself yesterday, and I had another look at the thing while I was there too. The Rise and Fall, and Bevel wheel, both felt really good and smooth. They didn't have a Router Fence on the thing for me to look at, but the Router Wing was definitely there alright. The one thing that really stood out as a letdown, though, was the main Ripping Fence. I might have been missing something, because I had my other hand full of a 450mm long SDS bit, but the Fence felt truly krappy when I tried to move it a bit and lock it with my free hand. Did you happen to work the Fence on the one you looked at?

    Best Wishes,
    Batpig.

  8. #7
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    No. I am going to go back and have a proper look at some point, but the next few days I'm run off my feet. I'm on hols and have friends from NSW comming wed, trying to get some work done round the house (it's raining of course!) etc etc. I went in there to look at the bandsaw, bought a bench grinder ($88 for 8", I know they are low power but fine for my use) and spent as much time looking at the 12M10 as the band saw, but it had a sold sticker on it and I'm mindful of how I'd feel if I'd bought it and someone was fiddling with it...

    I don't care much about the fence for me. If I bought one I'd whack the incra straight on it and set up so it can work both the router and saw. My main concern is the saw mechanism, and of course a flat stiff table. Also must check how the router attaches. I've not decided to buy one yet but I'm going to have a solid look, hopefully take some photos and measurements. I'll report back when/if I do.
    I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
    We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
    Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?

  9. #8
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    Dear Damian,

    It's obvious from the last paragraph of your previous post that you've got your eyes open enough. At the expense of repeating myself, I'll just say that both wheels felt particularly good - a certain "direct" feeling that isn't really there when you're winding them on most of the other big muthas - including everyone's fave, the TSC10HB. I wonder if they'd let you unscrew the hatch on the side to have a look into the belly of the beast (and take a Fota too of course!) I think I only saw one dust port on the underside of the thing, but I'm not too convinced about the effectiveness of blade-guard extraction anyway - probably more for show than anything.

    In light of your Incra intention, tell 'em the fence is krap, and can they take $50 off to help with the cost of a newie...

    Best Wishes,
    Batpig.
    Last edited by Batpig; 21st July 2008 at 10:12 PM. Reason: One of the smilies that came up was totally gay, and not the one I wanted. Is that a good enough reason?

  10. #9
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    Ha, that's optimistic.

    SO was at the dentist the other day so I walked down to carbatec to have a look, and bought some stuff as always. Anyway I'm almost certain the TTD machine is the same stuff as I said above, and taking your comments on board I fiddled with the fence. Sure enough the fence fitted to the open stand saws is awful. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same as the TTD machine also.

    I'd absolutely love for them to lose the router and rip fences and drop the price but I figure given carbatec sell that fence for $230 I could stick it on ebay or even here and find a buyer. Might be a few $ for the rip fence NIB.

    I guess my issues is will the saw itself and the router table itself work well. I understand the cabinet saw is dearer to make if only because of the heavier base but your talking BIG $ differences. Also the carbatec machines are 1.5 hp while the TTD machine has a 2 hp motor fitted. It just seems too good to be true.

    Anyway I'm hoping to get down there with camera and notepad/tape measure and stick it in inaccessable places (no naughty comments). Just run off my feet this week.

    Report soon hopefully.
    I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
    We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
    Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?

  11. #10
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    Ok I went down to TTD today armed with a camera and a tape measure. As previously mentioned the carbatec fence was pretty scratchy, and the TTD ones is also. So what did I learn ?

    The machines are not identical, but they are similar. The TTD is 2 hp, the motor cover is different, the switch is different, there are other small differences. If I mount the router extension on the left as I planned to do I'll have to remove the router to acess the motor. No biggie as the blade is changed via the throat plate. This was screwed down so I took the best shots I could. The cast iron bits inside seem well built. There appears to be a single V belt linking motor to arbour, but it might be a dual. The arbour has extra thread and the plate is wide enough to accomodate some sort of dado, but I haven't had access to the owners manual so can't comment. Nor could I discover the arbour size although the thread looks about 16 - 18 mm, and have what looks like an acme thread ?? The handles were smooth although the height juddered a bit when I wound it up.

    The router fence and extension wing appears to be identical to the carbatec ones as previously mentioned.

    The blade guard has dust extraction which the carbatec machines don't.

    If I could get a set of incra rails I'd try and sell on the fences (anyone have any idea if they are saleable?) and set it up with the left end level with teh extension. That would give me about 4' ripping width to the right of blade or maybe a bit less. The only issue with that is there would be no mitre slot to the left of the router bit so I either feed miter cuts from the back of the machine using the table slot or mount an aluminium one outboard of the extension wing. Doable but messy.

    Blade tilts left.

    Some measurements:

    Depth 687 mm, height 930.

    Width of main table 510, blade is about 250 from right edge, throat starts 180 ends 275 from right, blade slot (not blade) 200 from front and 80 from rear, miter slot 90 from right and 388 from right.

    Router table 260 wide, steel extension 245 wide. Router comes with 2 inserts, both steel. T sots on bottom for mounting along with brackets.

    What have I missed ?

    Pice are here:

    http://home.exetel.com.au/guzzi/tablesaw

    All in all I think it's remarkable value.
    I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
    We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
    Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?

  12. #11
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    Dear Damian,

    Quote Originally Posted by damian View Post
    If I could get a set of incra rails I'd try and sell on the fences (anyone have any idea if they are saleable?)
    Normally - yes - but that Ripping Fence is abnormal(ly bad)... Just seeing it again in your photos is giving me something like those Vietnam-Vet-type psycho-shakey-attacks that they get in the movies when a chopper goes over a bit too low... (got that line out of a recent post in the Jokes Forum fwiw...)
    I reckon you'd have a fair chance of shifting the Router Fence, though, because CarbaTec sell it and the Extension separately, so all your buyer would then have to do would be to buy the Extension from Carba-Tec. Here in "Buy and Sell" would be better than eGay because whoever bought it would need some time to go through it all in their mind. The new price for the fence is $219 in the catalogue, so you'd have to figure it would eventually shift for you if the price was right...

    That was a good thorough look that you had, and the photos are great (although I "timed out" before I could get all of them. Says a lot for my connection, hey...) I'm pretty sure it wont be from the same family as the Carba-Tec CT-10ST because the TTD unit has a Riving Knife that comes up through the Table Insert, whereas the Carba-Tec saw has a Splitter that comes up and forward from a pivot that comes out the back of the cabinet. Riving Knifes are more adjustable, but Splitter's are easier to remove, so take your pick. The only thing I can think of is that in the first photo it looks pretty tight between the red TTD Router and the side of the Saw's cabinet. Given that the motor cover is sticking out on the left side of the cabinet, are you therefore quite sure you'll have enough room to hang the Triton if you reposition the router wing over to the left (ie. above the motor cover)?

    I reckon you shouldn't be too worried about the missing Sliding Table compared to the CT-10ST. I'd be interested in hearing from other Forumites on the subject, but those tables typically look just too narrow - left to right - to transport truly decent sized sticks or sheets with, because the timber will just want to tip off the edge if it gets too long. You could make a couple of cross-cut sleds to drop into the mitre slots of the 12M10 that will probably be just as useful. Pity about the Rise & Fall "judder" on the one that you looked at. Maybe there's just one bolt loose inside somewhere? Perhaps they'd give you one in a crate rather than the display unit if you ended up buying one. You might have to be the "Trailblazer" on this one by the sounds of it, but it certainly sounds the goods...

    Best Wishes,
    Batpig.

    P.S. I've just had a look at the published table depth for the TSC-10HB, and it is 685mm (compared to your 687mm measurement for the 12M10), so it seems like the Router Wing and Fence setup might just be a common fitment between the two after all. You'd have to compare the centre-to-centre spacings of the fence hold-downs to be really sure, but it's certainly a good start towards being able to on-sell the fence to make way for your Incra.
    Last edited by Batpig; 25th July 2008 at 11:29 PM. Reason: Added the P.S.

  13. #12
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    I measured the router clearance carefully, it'll just clear but opening the door is out of the question. Even if it didn't fit I'd just put it on the RHS. That would create some issues but the LHS installation has issues also.

    Setting up a router table you have 4 types of cuts. Profiling cuts ( part/nil face removal), jointing cuts (full face removal), miter cuts (off a miter device) and pin or freehand routing ( I know your not supposed to route freehand but I'm naughty ). LHS installation gives you open acess to the end of the table, which is nice, but you don't have a miter track to the left of the bit so if you doing an open ended miter cut your doing a climb cut if approaching the bit from the right. The solution obviously is to feed from the back of the machine. Not ideal but doable. A RHS installation give you a miter slot to the left which is nice but you have the fence mounts to deal with (incra) or for the stock rip fence the rails sticking out. I guess it's a psychological thing for me, bit like right tilting blades. It just doesn't feel right but of course you can set up for each.

    It's not a prefect copy of either carbatec saw, it has some features of the "hybrid" model with the motor in the steel cabinet, and some features of the contractors saw with motor hanging out the back. It has some bits that look like they are off other models. It's like the H&F stuff. I think it all comes out of the same factory but is deliberately spec'd differently so they can claim differentiation.

    I wouldn't worry too much about the odd stray mm. It's hard to measure them properly. I'm absolutely convinced the router fences are the same. You really should try the carbatec rip fence. I'm quite sure it's as awful as the TTD one.

    I don't like sliding tables anyway (but what would I know?) but that one at carbatec is hopeless, even the salesman the other day was showing me how useless it is. He did like the one on the woodfast and he is quite right. Moved a lot smoother, but more importantly came up to the blade side, doesn't have a 250 fixed table section between ST and blade.

    I'm a shocking photographer, but also my camera was playing up, kept switching off. I think the rechargable batteries in it have gone dodgy. I put others in later and it was fine. Anyway didn't make the work easier.

    I'm seriously thinking about it. If my triton stuff sells I'll get it I think.
    I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
    We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
    Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?

  14. #13
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    Hi Guys,
    I went out yesterday and bought one of these.

    I have not finished assembling it yet as we have visitors but I will update you when I do get i done.

    First impressions are that it is a very well made piece of machinery. So far everything has gone together with no problems. No missing bits.

    Any local people in Brisbane are welcome to come and have a look at it . PM me and I will send you details.

    Cheers,
    Russ.

  15. #14
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    Thank you Russ for letting me have a look over yours yesterday. Haven't put the extra pics up yet.

    It's 12", 305 mm saw! That's the last straw, gotta have one.
    I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
    We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
    Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?

  16. #15
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    I've added pics to the website:

    http://home.exetel.com.au/guzzi/tablesaw
    I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
    We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
    Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?

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