The Poplar tree timber for turning!

[robutacion]

Hi everyone,

I've been trying to identify a particular type of tree that found on a property near by. These trees have been pulled off the ground with a bulldozer and pilled up (flat stack type) in one of the small house paddocks, for later burning. There are some other trees like them still standing, but this lot, maybe 20 or 30, have been removed. According to the property owner, these trees are no good for firewood (doesn't burn well), are too soft, no good for anything.
I did recognise these trees, as one of the species normally found nearly water (river banks, swamps, etc) back in my country of birth. I have also seen a few of them standing around water ways in the area but I haven't seen any cut down and available. I also remember that these trees were use to make door arches and anything that needed curving due to its flexibility, normally laminated with the finish timbers use on the rest of the house. Mainly white (ish), this timber has some brown(ish) colouration through it, light when dry, stringy to work with, very light colour bark (light grey) and a quite strong smell of "green timber" even when dry.
I have also notice that these trees are very mature and trunk sizes above normal (2' some) for this species.

I believe these trees were removed some time in the beginning of the year, they appear green, very wet and very slippery to walk over. Some have borer, some are hollow, some look affected with some roting fungus, some show and extraordinary layer of green moss growing all around the trunk near the roots (I believe this happens [moss] while tree was standing up).

Anyway I cut some out (4 logs), approx 4' lengths, closer to the root as possible (wider size timber), and brought them home. Before I took them to the storage paddock, I cut 1 piece (same length as diameter) of each log and split them in half. One half of each log was end grain sealed (painted) and put away to dry, the other halves where cut in round blanks for rough turning. One of the larger blanks was turned 2 days ago and sealed with timber stabiliser (2 coats). I've notice how much lighter those round blanks felt, since cut from the log and kept drying under cover, 2 weeks prior, the bigger difference did occur when I rough turned that one blank. In the beginning I was getting some water spray, but by the time I was half way cutting the inside of the bowl, was no more water spray. Even tough stringy, the timber did cut very well (very sharp tools), with the biggest surprise when I remove the bowl from the chuck, all the weight was gone, I could nearly sand it and make dust. Obviously, the timber was more wet than green, and with all that spinning around, the water was just pushed out of the timber. The weight at this stage, with the 2 coats of stabiliser, and 48 hours since turned, would be similar to the same bowl made out of totally dry pine. It hasn't shown any signs of cracking, warp or any movement, so far. This is I believe due to the timber characteristics as a light flexible timber. This is the first time I have use this timber for turning, and I should say looks very promising indeed.
I will try on my next bowl (3 to go, rough turning) a special product that is applied immediately after being turned, to stop any colouration of the timber, there is, it will not go yellow(ish), but stays its fresh cut colours, in this case near snow white. (pic of shavings attached).
I will try to collect some more of it before its burnt, now that I know this is good stuff.
I manage to find these trees species name, while searching, as the name that was giving to me was "popidur", and is no such thing. Anyway the name is POPLAR /Populus, one of 5 species, 1- Abele (white Poblar), 2- Grey Poblar, 3- Aspen, 4- Lombardy Poplar and 5- Black Poplar (the one is question).
One of the articles I come up about these trees is this one

Cheers
RBTCO

[joe greiner]

Good score, very good results, and a nice bit of research there, RBTCO. Thanks for sharing.

Joe

[thefixer]

That's a lot of trees in pic 1. They must have been very poplar.

Cheers
Shorty

[Ad de Crom]

RBTCO, poplar is a very nice wood for turnings, had in the past a lot of that stuff, so now you have the opportunity take it before they burn it.

Ad

[OGYT]

RBTCO, I have one in my yard. I planted 5 of them about 12 years ago, and it's the only one that survived. When I purchased them they were named Lombardy Poplar. They are about a 15 year tree.
I will cut this one down before it falls on my shop. And you're right. It's good turning wood.

[Rum Pig]

Good score RBTCO the grain pattern is really nice in the bowl you turned
hate to see the rest get burnt

[Hickory]

I believe they are Lombardy Poplar. A true poplar and useless as a "Wood" but for turning, it is a "walk in the park" to get some decent projects. It will spalt quite easily as it is rather soft and moist, It do check quite easily. A soft and lightweight wood and will rot in a heartbeat. Most trees live about 10-12 years and just Die from old age although I have seen some quite old. You can rip off a limb and keep the lump intact, stick it in a muddy river bank and it will take root and grow. Can become a Weed of a tree but you have to plant them as they usually reproduce from root stems (or at least that is the way they did on our farm, back when I was knee high to a grasshopper and we used them as a wind break as the house was atop a knoll and winter blew some cold air and snow and spring would wave a lead flag.

[hughie]

[ back when I was knee high to a grasshopper and we used them as a wind break as the house was atop a knoll and winter blew some cold air and snow and spring would wave a lead flag.

[/QUOTE]

Hickory,

sounds you and I were neighbours a lazy wind...going right through you

[Frank&Earnest]

Thanks for the memory... I remember one Sunday afternoon when a terrible storm was felling those lining the Milan-Lodi road and we dodged the falling trees in a FIAT 600 driven by dad... AFAIK Lombardy poplars are good only for woodchips because they grow like weeds, but would certainly be very easy to turn.

[robutacion]

Thanks for the memory... I remember one Sunday afternoon when a terrible storm was felling those lining the Milan-Lodi road and we dodged the falling trees in a FIAT 600 driven by dad... AFAIK Lombardy poplars are good only for woodchips because they grow like weeds, but would certainly be very easy to turn.

I Frank&Earnest,
Apart from the bad experience (terrifying, I believe) you would had, seen those trees dropping down to the road while your Dad was driving the "famous Fiat 600" (some memories here! on the busy Milan-Lodi, have you actually ever done anything at all out of this wood species? nor even turning some of it before?
Poplars grow exactly the same as most varieties of gum/eucalyptus, cut it right down to the ground, they will shoot new trees all around in no time. Actually this reminds me of the eucalyptus plantation trees back on the other country where the first cut was ready in 16 years, the second and next cuts would develop in half that time. That's right, first cut 16 year, second cut from the same trunk would yield at least 2 to 3 grown trees from the new shoots. The third cut was normally the most financially rewarding, with at least 4 to 6 new trees growing (yield) from the same original root system. So basically, 16 years after plantation, 100% yield, 8 year later, 200% to 300% yield, the following 8 years, 400% to 600% yield. After 32 years, the root systems would weaken considerably, with maybe one more cut 8 years after, producing about 200% in numbers but reduction on the overall log size from 15" to 10". Any other attempts to grow out of the old stump, would produce only small diameter stuff of 5" if lucky. This were the growing times and yield expectations on new plantations around the 1970's.
Sorry, I got carried away with the growing process of theses Poplars, and according to some of the research I've done recently, there are some testing being done at present, with the intention to use these species on new quick grow plantations for our Industry.
Did you know Poplar is ranked as a Hardwood?

Well Frank, if you haven't turn this one before, I reckon you will be soon...!
Actually, my preparations of today and the plans for tomorrow, if it does not rain, it will be going to this property with my small trailer to fill it up with logs to fit the trailer width 4'+a bit. I will be working hight as the timber has been stacked bloody hight, and trying not to fall, those logs are slippery as butter. Being flat stacked, all in one direction, makes it a little dangerous as trees are not braced on anything, they move a lot and when the cut is made to separate the big roots still attached, from the base of the trunk (widest timber), the heavy root rolls downs and moves things around, while I am at the top hanging on on slippery stuff
I wish that I had climbing boots with spikes under it.

Cheers
RBTCO

[woodwork wally]

Hi By the sound of that slippery dipping I think you should make yourself a set of boot irons like the old dad had when logging in the bush . they were held on like early roller skates with metal plate with about 1/2 inch -or 12 mm. spikes and sat in front of the heel of the boot with strap over instep and another around back of the heel to hol in place. and the used them as climbing stirrups when lopping before felling as well as on logs in the logg yards they were made by the local smithy . but with the gear you have it wouldnt be hard to do Regards WW.Wally

[Ed Reiss]

RBTCO...

Nice turnings!

I've found that kiln dried poplar is a good wood for segmented construction as it is very stable, and also takes dye, stains, and paint very well.

Cheers,

Ed

[robutacion]

Hi By the sound of that slippery dipping I think you should make yourself a set of boot irons like the old dad had when logging in the bush . they were held on like early roller skates with metal plate with about 1/2 inch -or 12 mm. spikes and sat in front of the heel of the boot with strap over instep and another around back of the heel to hol in place. and the used them as climbing stirrups when lopping before felling as well as on logs in the logg yards they were made by the local smithy . but with the gear you have it wouldnt be hard to do Regards WW.Wally

I wish that I had spent some time, making something like your dad had. I thought the first time I had troubles on those logs, was due to the fact that we had some rain early that day and on the day before, but I couldn't be more wrong. I don't remember to have so much trouble walking on logs, using the same type boots, for a long time. I know that my extra 20 kg put in these last few years, isn't helping much, but these trees are an absolute nightmare to work over. My planned trip to the property last Wednesday, had to be changed at the last minute so I planned it for the following day.
The weather has been good for days with plenty of sunshine so I didn't thing that I was going to have much problems walking over those logs. I even changed the side of the of timber pile, from last time, there is, last time I was in the shade (West) so this time I decided to go on the East side, where the sun was hitting hard and hot. I seemed to be alright for the first half an hour or so, then certainly I start feeling my boots slip a little, looked down it appear to be some moisture where I just had my feet on, the rest of the log(s) looked surface dry so I continued on.

Not long after, I lost my balance, couldn't grip and fell down into the log bellow, skidding into a gap between logs, just big enough to fit both legs but, not the rest. The chainsaw stayed on, just beside me a few feet away, has I was a bit saw on one knee and on my hip. I became suspicious about the certain slippery surface on the logs, but I just couldn't find anything wrong. By then, I had already cut and rolled down the 3 highest trunks on that layer. Each trunk would allow about 2 or 3 smaller logs of 4 feet long by whatever the diameter (from 1' to 2'+). I was half way into what I wanted to do for the day so, after a drink of water I got re-fulled the 24" bar chainsaw and went up, to continue on from where I left.

I started the machine on the ground, because "she can be a mongrel" to start sometimes, and as I was just getting to the place where I would start cutting the next log (half way up on the pile, about 3 meters or so about ground level), stood up, got my both hands on the chainsaw, as soon as the chain started cutting in 1" or so, lost grip on my both feet, felt the whole body going back-wards, so I tried to use the hand grip of the chainsaw to hold on to, because the chain wasn't deep enough ( or maybe wouldn't make any difference), the chainsaw come out of the cut and down I went. I obviously was holding on tight to the chainsaw, cause as I went back, the chainsaw was thrown in the air and behind me, at least 6 meters. I end-up, hanging by my right leg upside-down, back and head (helmet went flying) hitting hard against the logs, my harms were just touching the ground, and the only thing that I could see was, sky.

All this happened with my wife just a few meters away, and just before she was taking some pics, and saying "be careful, don't fall down again". There are no pics of either incidents, nor I thing the camera would be pointing into the right place, even if she had it in her hands, believe me, I know "panic/panic...!". Actually, quite common!
It took me some effort, with the help of my wife, to get my right leg free (just bellow the knee) and get in the up right position, which did hurt like buggery. I had a very sharp pain on top of that leg, not allowing me to stand up on it for some time. Half an hour or so later, and while I was resting seated on a log, my wife got everything in the waggon, as the day was really and truly over for me (us).

The big chainsaw was broken, and I was pretty saw all over, but fortunately no broken bones or any other major damage that can be seen, anyway. No doubt, these falls don't help in any way my health, nor that I'm related to cats, as my 9 life's have been truly and certainly, used....!
Such just an nonacceptance/balance/fight between brain and body.
Anyway, I got some answers to why the tree surface (bark) certainly, would get slippery. I notice in places where I would stand over for a while, moving the feet a lot, those were the places where I would start feeling a slip here and there. What its happen is, this particular tree species have was is called a green skin bark, there is the outside layer (outer bark) as we would normally call "bark", is no more than a few mm (3 to 5mm) of a very absorbent/porous skin. Under it (inner bark) is a combination of a fibrous material (10mm to 25mm) that works like a "sponge", protecting the timber "flesh" keeping it moist and accumulating lots of zap (slippery resins). What happens is, when pressure (weight/impact/force) is applied to the outer skin (bark) , zap is repelled from the inner bark through the very porous outer skin, making it very slippery. This zap will keep on the surface, until pressure (weight, etc.) is applied, which afterwards is "soaked/absorbed" back in.

Taking this into consideration, and the fact that the affected areas were exposed to me standing on them and the "bashing/hitting" of the 1.20 meters heavy logs been thrown/rolled over the trunks of the trees down-wards, and the short space of time in between the first lot been cut and pushed down, and me going up again for the second lot, does explain what happened. No question, boots with spikes, next time.

I'm adding a few pics of that day, nothing special, the first pic was taken from the road, about 800 meters away.

Cheers
RBTCO

[Brendan1152]

Scary stuff, glad you are OK.

Regards

Brendan

[rsser]

Wot Ed said.

Poplar of some variety was used by fine cabinet makers for panels out of sight as it could be stained and finished to look like the much more exxy exotic timber on view.