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Thread: GIS Yawl
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18th September 2009, 01:47 PM #106
Good luck in china.
If you want to win peoples good opinion when you had money or paper to them do it with both hands. if it is coins hand them over with one hand but touch your wrist with the fingertips of the other hand.
MIK
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18th September 2009 01:47 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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18th September 2009, 02:15 PM #107
So the combination of what both Brian & Clint are saying is the money might be in a
stock GIS in glass or CF, trimmed with wood. Market is people who want the clean
lines but don't trust wood, and don't understand that a glass boat will be heavier
without offering any other significant advantages ?
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18th September 2009, 07:38 PM #108SENIOR MEMBER
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I guess Swallow Boats in the UK who sell wood kits, wood built and GRP versions of the same design are saying, "lets not loose a customer who wants a design, and lets supply it the way he wants so we do not loose him".
The Goat with it's big flat areas would be a real problem in grp, not a good idea, ply is perfect for her. I was thinking more of Drake, three way supply and capture everyone who wants a Drake? By all means ply kits for Goat and Rowboat. Alec Jordan already supplies kits for Goat in the UK.
The US seems to have a well developed kit supply industry with people like CLC and Pygmy. Much more so than in the UK.
Who knows what's best in these difficult times. I used to be certain of selling prices for second hand dinghies and would buy with impunity. I have no idea now what second hand values are, although the market is picking up in the UK, and I have just sold my fishing boat this week. (Too dizzy these days to use it)
Brian
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18th September 2009, 09:44 PM #109
G'day Brian
Didn't say it is a good idea . Just that there might be a higher turn-over market there
for what is, in effect, the lesser product. Rather like cheap Chinese versions of the
quality products we used to be able to buy...
Doubtless, the oil-canning could be over-come with extra ribbing.
Come to think of it, the first fibreglass Wright Intermediate killed the class. Not
because it was faster - it wasn't. I think the logic was that if a glass boat is slower
than a wooden one, then the design is stuffed. The Flying 11's that replaced the
Wright weren't faster either. After several consecutive weeks of being thrashed by all
but the slowest Wright crews, the Flying 11's were rescheduled to a different timeslot
& course. But glass was regarded as the "better" material, & therefore more trust-worthy,
so the glass boat classes grew, & the wooden ones disappeared.
Humans are bizarre critters. Homo sapiens so often seems to blindly follow the herd
rather than acting on what they can clearly see & hear.
cheers
AJ
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21st September 2009, 12:10 AM #110SENIOR MEMBER
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The GIS in vacuum infused composites wouldn't be super practical because of the ease of construction in plywood. But, I am looking for a great dinghy/pram design to build, make a mold, and start doing some infused composite building. Maybe next year. For now, it looks like my foci will be:
--high end spars and oars: birdsmouth spars with the standard detailing and a new approach I am learning about talking to Dudley Dix. The oars will be composite-blade Spruce oars as well as traditional flat- and spoon-blade oars in the Culler tradition. I will have two Goat masts available and can help anyone with oars...I will make ply-carbon blades, pure carbon blades (infused) and plan to do a kayak paddle this coming year.
--Kits for my designs: Drake(Drake will be in WoodenBoat this December), Deblois Street Dory, and the CIY, which I will be lofting and modeling on the computer for the first time, after my course in Rhino/CAD. I'd like to offer kits for my favorite boats...Gartside's Flashboat, MSD rowboat, GIS of course...
--Composite small craft next year starting with a pram and going from there...I can see a ultra light rowboat like the Flashboat in composite and other fixed seat rowboats that could be built in the 75 lb mark...cartoppable rowboats and small sailboats and motorboats. If there is a place to use infused composites it is in weight saving purposes.
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21st September 2009, 01:39 AM #111SENIOR MEMBER
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Your going to be busy then!! I am sure you must know just how much we are all rooting for you.
Could you do members a favour and post here the details and spec for Drake, I don't think MIK would mind, and your web site has little detail, not even her beam so I can compare her to Joel White's Shearwater which I guess was one of her influences. If you prefer just a PM will do.
Brian
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21st September 2009, 08:00 AM #112SENIOR MEMBER
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Drake's info is on there...go to the boats/plans/kits section and click on DRAKE.
Drake is 4'1" x 17'4". I am still looking for a scale to measure her but would say she is 135-140lbs. She uses 9'1" oars. Waterline dimensions: 34" x 15 1/2'.
Attached pictures are from a 19 mile day one the water...I sailed for about 5 minutes with a fair wind. She is only designed for off wind sailing and is a fun ride.
Clint
PS I revised the above post/plan to add...
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25th September 2009, 02:12 PM #113
Clint,
This may be of interest to you and offer a hint at the market for selling a GIS.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/boa/1389463330.html
Admittedly the circumstances are different - a boat being sold to benefit a charity may draw a different set of customers and the selling price may not reflect a true market. But it should be at least an indicator of a price point. That assumes the selling price is disclosed.
Bob
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25th September 2009, 09:01 PM #114SENIOR MEMBER
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Thanks Bob. Unfortunately, a professionally built one will cost more than twice that amount, which is why more people will build their own. I'll build one for myself too! And I'm going to focus on very nice oars and masts. I can supply great ones for the Goat and any boat up to 20.
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23rd December 2009, 12:52 AM #115SENIOR MEMBER
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GIS Yawl
Here are some pictures to visualize the yawl set up. The models were built by John Goodman.
Texas GIS
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23rd December 2009, 11:39 AM #116
Howdy,
The solid glass Flying 11s that were down to weight were really marginal structures. They just couldn't compete in terms of racing longevity with the few down to weight wooden ones. At least until they moved to foam glass and increased the cost.
I haven't heard much of Flying 11s in recent years. A lot of the skiff clubs on the harbour used to use them as an introductory class. I think Manly 16' skiff club still has a fleet. Hunter's Hill sailing club has 10 active boats. Would have been three times that 20 years ago.
DINGHY SPORTS Flying Eleven Prices
I would be impossible to build a glass Goat down to the weight of a good wooden one and have it as long lasting or as stiff. The killer is the sheer surface area of the hull. You could do a good one in foam sandwich.
In fact there is a home built one in foam with something like a windsurfer rig or skiff rig sailing on Sydney harbour. I was interested in the building of the hull, but I thought the rig was a poor choice because it reduced the sail area and increased the heeling moment. I would be pretty sure that it sails nicely in moderate winds with one person aboard, but in the role of grunty weight carrier the smaller rig would have quite a disadvantage.
But a very noble experiment!
Best wishes
Michael
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23rd December 2009, 01:36 PM #117SENIOR MEMBER
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When we were building the MSD Rowboat with the kids at the Composites training place here in Maine, everyone watching us build the skiff were like, "Man, why aren't you building that in composite". I said, "It is composite, wood-composite, plywood and glue...." but they meant glass-foam sandwich. Since I was learning the new technology I was all excited..."wahooo, lets do everything composite, boats, paddles, spars..." but after a few months of working with glass and carbon fiber and NOT WOOD -- and wrestling with making vacuum infusion work with oar blades -- I am happy to stay with plywood and glue. I realize now, that it just doesn't make sense from a process point of view to convert a hull like the MSD or GIS or any skiff to a glass-foam laminate unless one were doing production boatbuilding in these boats. It is so much faster (and more pleasant) to build with plywood and wood with glue, getting pretty much the same result or better. Where glass and carbon laminates make A LOT of sense is in masts and spars when they get really big (well over the size we talk about here) and in things like oar blades or places where we need a lot of bang for the buck with respect to saving weight where we do not want it. Besides, wood and carbon look nice together (pic below)
This is why BIW is building our new destroyers with all composite superstructure, or heading that way. This is why wind turbines are infused glass composite. Anyway...
With respect to the YAWL part of this thread..."yawl" should check out what my buddy James McMullen put together as a little educational piece for learning How to Sail a Lug-Yawl. He sails a Oughtred double ender and is one of the best boatbuilders I know.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Cheers,
Clint
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24th December 2009, 10:13 AM #118
That is why wood is such a surprising medium. Everyone is set up to underestimate it!
MIK
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24th December 2009, 10:17 AM #119SENIOR MEMBER
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27th January 2010, 01:16 PM #120SENIOR MEMBER
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Gunwales by Design
Attached is a PDF showing how I like to do my gunwales. It makes a nice looking gunwale. Thought I'd share it with this community of Storerites. It certainly isn't anything new.
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