Build a Boat Magazine/Book

[cookiesa]

Hope this hasn't been asked before... no luck with the search so fingers crossed!

Has anyone bought plans from this book and if so I'd appreciate your thoughts on them. The prices seem comparable (eg not cheap) to buying from a "known" designer

Still looking but they have a couple of similar options to a Jarcat (Anyone have a set of plans they want to let go for one of them???)

[damian]

I've got issues of build a boat going back to the 70's, and a couple of their plan sets.

The problem is that plans are a tiny fraction of the total cost and saving a penny can cost you a pound. The BAB plans are mostly very old, us inefficient methods and produce not particularly saleable boats. Saleable not sailable.

If your looking for a J6 style boat you really can't go past Ross Turners design. Dirt cheap plans (about $500 as I recall), cheap and easy to build, lots of owners, I think there is a specific yahoo group for jarcats, lots of support, well known thing demonstrated ability and clear resale value.

If your looking at mini bridgedecks then Mick Wallers boat and Ray Kendrick has a 5 m one aswell. You can buy the little barrier as a hull kit and fit it out yourself.

More serious is Richard Woods Merlin, IMO the best folding cat that can be had. He offers plans for download at a reduced price.

The F22 is a spectacular option in that size range but rather more expensive to build.

2c.

[cookiesa]

Thanks for the response.

Yes the Jarcat is the most likely way I will go although I do have study plans for the Waller TC670 too. I love the lines on the Little Barrier but their website (expressmultihulls) redirects to a different site and their number has the recorded "the number you have rung is.... please check the number and try again" so I am wondering if they are perhaps no more???

As I said of all the plans I am looking at the plan price's are all similar... I am looking more at the design and details.

My thought with the build a boat plans is the book doesn't look like it has been updated in 30 years (although there are definately some newish designs in there) and I am wondering how detailed the plans are..

I do like the look on Ray Kendricks.... although looking at the building materials list it seems to be fairly heavily built in comparison to Mike Wallers and the Jarcat which surprised me a bit...
Whilst Woods designs are indeed well proven and no doubt great boats I don't personally like the styling and prefer a more modern design/style cat with bridgedeck (for accomodation needs)

The intended use is day/weekends with a young family.

[damian]

BAB is an old publication, some of the plans going back pre war I think. They do revise the list though and new stuff dribbles in.

One of the things that has fascinated me over the years is the definition of boat plans. Some I've seen are barely adequate to build from even for the experienced. Conversely Ian Farrier offers a complete course in building with virtually every potential problem addressed before hand. The build a boat plans are adequate, your problem starts when there is no one to ask when you get stuck, hence the value of Mr Storer, Mr farrier, Mr Kendrick, and in the jarcat case the owners groups. Last I heard Mr turner was unwell, I do not know if he is availabel to builders nowdays.

I have my own opinion of some of these designes. I have got into trouble expressing them in the past so now will remain silent, for once. I will only say teh jarcats are cheap to build and very well proven, if not the most attractive boat. Personally given your location I wouldn't bother about the barrier. They are probaly still there, but focused on filling backorders rather than sorting the web pages. Someone on the forum who lives at Sandgate can confirm. I haven't been over there for a while.

Bridgedecks aren't more modern BTW, just a different approach. In that size the shape of the cabin presents problems which is why the folding tri has held sway in small cabined trailerables. The materials and effort expended on the bridgedeck cabin could be directed to longer deeper wider hulls. A commmon tent can make a spacious cabin on an open deck cat. A Sango has been sailed sucessfully off SA in big seas and the smaller open deck woods boats are very appealing options for deep water sailing. You understand which design is merlin don't you ? The folding bridgedeck 22' boat ? They are pretty attractive in the flesh..

You are spoiled for choices. BAB plans would not be my first choice.

[cookiesa]

Thanks again for your input... It would be good if someone could checkout express as it doesn't look good... I have also tried to phone them...

I wuld be interested in your opinions of the various designs etc if you would like to pm them that would be good too.

Some level of comfort above basic camping is required for the project to sort of get the ok.... We camp and 4x4 now but I would love to get back in to the sailing nd encourage the kids too while they are young... 4x4 touring is getting expensive these days! LOL

[Boatmik]

BAB is an old publication, some of the plans going back pre war I think. They do revise the list though and new stuff dribbles in.

Good general summary in your post above Damian.

There used to be two main sailing/boating publications in Australia up until the late /70s

Seacraft and Modern Boating.

Seacraft used to be a vehicle for selling plans (cunning word "craft' in the title) to some extent but was a worthy general boating news magazine. When the boating magazine market fragmented in the early '80s with a bunch of new specialised magazines (like Australian Sailing) the older magazines had to become more specialised too.

Modern Boating moved over to motorboats specifically and Seacraft maybe decided it couldn't compete with these two specialist magazines and started doing the "Build a Boat" magazine. I think the proprieter of both was Norman Hudson - who obviously was pivotal in the Australian home boatbuilding boom in the late 50's through to the early '70s

I think your summary of the contents is pretty accurate but considering that motor boat plans have not evolved as much as sailboats, canoes and kayaks.

Actually ... that statement of mine is not quite fair ... all boats have evolved but there are so many plans for older style powerboats that it is going to take a long time for modern plans and boats in modern construction methods to reach the number and variety represented by the back catalogue.

In addition there are a number of features of conventional powerboat design that are VERY difficult to create in methods like stitch and glue (I am thinking here of flare in the bow) this pushes strongly back toward building over a strongback and some form of slightly more complex building to get the flare in the bow or tumblehome in the stern or fineness in the bow.

Best wishes
Michael

[Boatmik]

Just found a little reference in an article about a graphic artist.

“I was offered a job at Hudson Publications as a magazine artist, sometime around 1951, I think,” explains Kevan. “Norman O. Hudson then published Outdoors and Fishing and Seacraft magazines. As they prospered, we went on to launch Wheels, Two Wheels, Science To-day and Bride, along with other publications.”
“Initially, I painted covers, retouched photos and did some illustrations, but with the increased number of monthly magazines, we increased the number of in-studio artists – and I was eventually made art director,” he says.
“My job was to study the line-up as presented by the editors and assign the layouts to my artists, as well as commission illustrations with dinki[xi] and typography for headings,” explains Kevan. “Retouching of photographs was a big part of the work, as we printed by letterpress from acid-etched engravings on rough paper, the best then available in those days of short supply. The sizes of photographs and illustrations were strictly controlled, as the engravings were charged by the square inch and the budgets were tight. No big double-page spreads, then.”
Hudson Publications was later bought out by the K.G. Murray Publishing Company, which added Hudson’s titles to its already popular range of consumer and entertainment magazines.
http://comicsdownunder.blogspot.com/...-hardacre.html

[damian]

I enjoy reading it, and I've been tempted by several of the plan sets, but you do need to realise that your buying plans which use old and sometimes less efficient methods to the new stuff available.

That's fine of course. There are plenty of people who get a kick out of building traditional lapstrake and so forth, but if your aim is to build a boat to use and not be immersed in the journey there are other options.

Having said that there are plans there that are quite feasable in the modern context.

I have not seen these new bridgedeck cat plans so cannot comment specifically. I remain not completely satisfied by any of the mini bridgedecks I've seen. The jarcats have a formidable reputation, but could be more pleasing to the eye. I would love to find the "perfect" design but I'm not looking for it very hard as I am not intending at this moment to build that type of boat. A J6 with pleasing lines would be a nice prospect.

[cookiesa]

Some good points on design there.

Just out of curiosty as a building novice I notice the Hartley (Powerboats) seem to have had a fairly big bow flare, Is this done through building on a strongback?

(The only one I have seen "inside and out" was around 30ft with a perkins mounted mid ship, the flare seemed to have been done with laminating thin ply at around 90 degree to the previous layer)

The owner spent a lot of time fairing that bow!

I am awaiting the study plans for the Kendrick 5.6 Double Shuffle.

ne thing I have noticed with all 3 I am looking at (Jarcat, Waller TC670 and the Double Shuffle) Is that there is no real consistency in hull/bulkhead thickness. They all vary greatly, although there are obvious differences in design I find it interesting they vary. Once I have more details I'll post a bit more of a comparison between them. Obviously some extra engineering has been built in as they are designed to be taken on and off a trailer, transported (bumped around etc) and beached no doubt.

I guess I expected them to be built with a greater look in to building them lightly and relying more on the epoxy/glass for strength. Of course comparing the Jarcat in this scenario is a little unfair considering the age difference of the designs, but interestingly the Double Shuffle seems at first glance to be the "heaviest" built. Perhaps those who have built/owned one of these (although I am not sure if any Double Shuffle's have actually been built as there are no photo's on the website) might have an opinion.

I might be missing something but I thought with the beam restriction (for towing) building it lighter would allow for a more easily driven cat that could get away with a smaller rig to help componsate for the lack of beam? Or does the extra weight assist more with stability than what the reduced rig could??

Interesting... glad I don't design them for a living! too many variables

[damian]

Mr Hartley was a truely great designer, but both his lines and build methods are from another era.

Most boat are built on strongbacks even today and many power boats have flared bows. Specific designs can have traps in them which aren't immediately obvious and can cost $ time and work to overcome. I don't know the boat your referring to, but I have seen sail boats where for example it was not obvious to me how hulls or sealed compartments are closed during the build. There can be little wiggles in a line (some wharrams have this) where a piece of plywood is most reluctant to take a fair curve. This is why established proven designs and available designers or previous builders are better choices. You'll still have problems but at least there will be ways out to hand.

Speaking of Hartley the sparkle is an interesting boat. Don't buy from hartley and brooks. There is another supplier at the same price who are rather more honest. Clarkcraft. Too big for you anyway...

[Boatmik]

Some good points on design there.

Just out of curiosty as a building novice I notice the Hartley (Powerboats) seem to have had a fairly big bow flare, Is this done through building on a strongback?

(The only one I have seen "inside and out" was around 30ft with a perkins mounted mid ship, the flare seemed to have been done with laminating thin ply at around 90 degree to the previous layer)

The owner spent a lot of time fairing that bow!

Well .. you need the strongback to hold all the framing in the right place while the skin is glued (and in the old days nailed) to it.

But you are right in your observation of the bow. Basically the flared bow has to be made up of smaller pieces than the sheets of ply used for the rest of the beast - there is no chance of making sheets conform.

Hartley's trick was to do everything else in ply, with only limited areas of the boat requiring more complex methods.

I've seen bows done out of triangles of ply and batten/seam construction (like traditional plank but a narrow batten behind the join in the planks which both planks are and screw/nailed to), or some form of cold moulding (probably the most common method used now) where narrower a half or third the ply thickness planks are put down, then a second layer glued down to them at a different angle and maybe a third.

The biggest difference between boats of the Hartley Era and modern boats is the bill for fastenings (many modern boats don't have many/any) or the cost of solid timber - more of the structure of modern boats is just cut out of ply or orientate the timber differently to reduce the amount needed.

Best wishes
Michael

[Wild Dingo]

I have a set of Mikes TC plans and I will say one thing... THEY ARE BLOODY BRILLIANT!... in the amount of information he provides is IMMENSE! Seriously these are probably close to the most conclusive plans I have had in my hands.

The Jarcat is designed by Ross Turner... and I found in comparrison well no comparision... not in anyway a put down of the Jarcat or Ross's abilities as a designer but rather that the TC plans are by far more comprehensive.

Although I will admit if one had NO KNOWLEDGE of boatbuilding and was a complete novice and tried to build one from Mikes plans I think they would become confused rather swiftly due to the nature of trying to be so comprehensive I think hes actually over done it a tad... but if one READS the info according to the designers foreword and his methodology it works like a jigsaw puzzle but to just get the reams of paper drawings 2 folders of information on construction and how it goes together it can be confusing... me I like LOTS of info!! more the merrier as I enjoy the techno side and the methodology of the designer.

As to the difference in performance of each well Im yet to see either in the flesh... and will be hopefully building Mikes sometime over the next millenium or so... Quite simply I like the style and spacial layout of the TC over the Jarcat But that is simple personal preference

Anyway I just thought Id poke me nose in and give me 2 bobs worth and Ive done that so away I go again!

Cheers
Shane

[cookiesa]

I have a set of the studyplans for the TC670 and they certainly seem comprehensive..

Cost of build and budget is probably going to mean the Jarcat is the most likely. I don't doubt the TC670 would be the better performer of the two!

I also have the Kendrick Double Shuffle study lans and love the looks and design... except the single centre board and compression post through the middle of the cabin.... But then I keep looking at them so maybe.... just maybe lol (Both the Jarcat 6 and Double shuffle are shorter than the TC670

So

Jarcat 5m
Double Shuffle 5.6m
TC670 6.7m