Need HSS cutting tools

[STEAM]

Anyone know where I can get a set of 12mm HSS pre ground cutting tools within Australia, as in the attached pic? I live in Perth WA. Hope some one can help or direct me to a supplier, I can't find them and tried googling

[Kody]

My question is, Why do you want to buy these tools as a set? To buy these tools pre-ground to shape using decent HSS would cost an arm and a leg! If you really want these tools, you are far better off by obtaining 12mm HSS and grind them yourself to shape. I can only guess that you are relatively new to lathe work and that a 12mm thick HSS tool sits at the exact center height when clamped in the toolpost (of your lathe?). Can you use a smaller size piece of HSS, eg. 5/16" or 1/4" and pack the tool to the desired height? This would be a much cheaper and far more efficient way to go.

The offset "Knife" tools are not really required, in fact, I have never had need of them in all my machining life. The only tools I would use from the set shown would be the parting tool (used upside down at the rear of the cross-slide) and the boring bar.

Please tell us more about what you are doing and why you chose this particular set of tools.

Kody

[STEAM]

My question is, Why do you want to buy these tools as a set?

Please tell us more about what you are doing and why you chose this particular set of tools.

Kody

Hi Kody,

Thanks for replying to my post. Yes I am new to lathing and currently using tungsten tipped inserts, the triangulare type. I posted a question on another forum here "http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3871.0" as I wanted to know how they cut small 2mm groves in model engine cylinders, or what they used for parting. So after many replies, it was suggested that I get some inexpensive HSS, pre ground so to help me understand the types and angles of the grinds, for when I need to touch them up.

I intend to make model steam, air, and Stirling engines and also make parts for my model RC aircraft. I have been practising many different cuts and metals, I have been turning out flywheels and made a rig for constructing spoked wheels, if your interested have a look at my post here "http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3862.0"

I have a HSS parting blade with holder, but other than small brass bar, I can not get it to cut through, I have it dead centre but my skill in grinding it correctly may be lacking, and need of practise. To answer you question on why do I need a set, well I honestly don't know what I want. Making small model engines require small cuts in small pieces with accuracy and many decorative angles and shapes for good looks.

Any help you give will be very welcome,

Kind Regards

Steve

Perth
WA

[Keith_W]

Hi smuttley,
As Kody has said you need to pratice making your own cutting tools, you will like all of us make some mistakes but thats part of the learning experiance.
Get a good grinder and good grinding wheels its esential to having sharp cutters, look on the web at Norton Grinding Wheels they have good advice.
I have attached some advice found by others that will help you in your cutter selection and how to sharpen your cutters.

Regards,
Keith.

[Retromilling]

I avoid as much parting off as possible by using a band saw to cut the job off and then put it back in the chuck and machine it to finnished length .
It is quicker and easier to reset up the job than to part in most cases.
You usually have to put the parted piece back in the chuck anyway to finnish it to specs.
Shallow grooving is not as bad as parting off and you should be able to grind a parting blade down to 2 mm and groove with that .
Keep the ammount of blade hanging out of the tool holder as short as possible .

[.RC.]

I avoid as much parting off as possible by using a band saw to cut the job off and then put it back in the chuck and machine it to finnished length .
It is quicker and easier to reset up the job than to part in most cases.

Parting off is easy

http://users.beagle.com.au/lathefan/...331%5b1%5d.wmv

However the secret to parting off with HSS blades is lubrication, you MUST use cutting oil when parting off with HSS blades otherwise the tool will just dig in...

[bollie7]

To add to what R.C has said. You need your set up as rigid as possible. minimal over hang on your tool. ie compound back so there is no over hang on the ways. Tool sharp and on centre. Only enough of the blade sticking out to reach the centre. Also important is having the tool square to the axis of the machine. If you are not sure, take the time and set it up using a dial gauge. Plenty of coolant or cutting oil. If the machine has a saddle lock, use it. Use the correct speed.
Do all this and if your machine doesn't have too much play in the spindle bearings, you shouldn't have a problem.
I've found that a spring type holder works best for me. I can't find a decent pic of one on the net at the moment. there is a small pic of one here.
http://www.lprtoolmakers.com/product...12ed86fcf8cd2f


Just found this which might be helpful. I haven't read it right through yet though.
http://www.armurerieduroi.com/pages/...g_parting.html

Sorry didn't realise the video was about wood turning as I couldn't view it ealier.
regards
bollie7

[jmk89]

Anyone know where I can get a set of 12mm HSS pre ground cutting tools within Australia, as in the attached pic? I live in Perth WA. Hope some one can help or direct me to a supplier, I can't find them and tried googling

Try Minitech, they have 6mm, 8mm and 10mm HSS tools preground tools

[STEAM]

Thanks Guys,

Very helpful info here, I will grab some HSS and have a go at grinding my own and also grap some pre ground for left and right cutting, practise, practise and more practise,

Thanks again

Regards

Steve

[bollie7]

Steve
rather than start your tool grinding on HSS, try getting some square mild steel bar and practise on that. Obviously you won't try and use the bit for cutting but it will give you a chance to get the hang of it, getting the angle right etc. Once you are confident that you have the hang of it then move onto the HSS. Mild steel will be cheaper than HSS.
I work for TAFE and this is what they do in the F&M sections with people new to machining.
Remember when grinding the HSS that you really don't want to bring up any colour when grinding it once you get close to the required shape. This can damage the heat treatment. So just grind a little bit and then cool it down. If it "sizzles" when you quench it, it's too hot. Keep in mind that the steel can be quite slippery when you fingers are wet and soft so extra care is needed at the grinding wheel. Once you have the shape right, use a fine wetstone to just hone the edges and the nose radious. That makes a big difference to the cutting action as well.
Once you have ground a couple you will be surprised how easy it becomes.

Best of luck with it.
ps don't ever chuck out broken HSS tools like centre drills, end mills etc. great for making specials.

regards
bollie7

[STEAM]

Steve

ps don't ever chuck out broken HSS tools like centre drills, end mills etc. great for making specials.

regards
bollie7

Good tips bollie7 (no pun intended), I have been having a go with my HSS parting blade today, I present the steel to the grinding wheel for about 5 seconds, then dip it into water and repeat until I think it is the correct shape and angle (about 5+ DEG). I have the steel as short as posible in the holder and dead centre and using oil lube. But trying this on some round Aluminium bar, still produces chatter and don't seem to want to cut more than a mm. Most of my problems are with parting off, as I am trying to build model steam engines, and a lot of parts are thin and circular, like crank shafts disks etc.
Would I be better of getting a tungsten inert parting tool, like the attached picture?


Regards

Steve

[bollie7]

Steve
I did my time as a Fitter & Machinist in the mid 1970's but most of my work, when I was on the tools, was as a fitter. So whilst I have done a fair bit of machining its nowhere near as much as someone who has worked as a machinist. The reason I say this is so that you and others know that I, by no means claim to be an expert machinist. Kody, on this forum, has much more experience than me, so if he says something different to me, I'd take his advice.
I haven't worked on the tools for about 6 years now.

re insert parting tool. I don't own one but I have used them. As it was at least 10 years ago I can't remember what they are like with aluminium. Great for steel. For myself I'd rather spend the money on other things. HSS is better value for money in a home workshop I think. As far as tool angles go , I'd have to go back to my books to be able to give angles. After so long you "know" when a tool is ground ok.
I think you problem is not entirely with the parting tool. For aluminium, if you don't have a coolant system on your lathe, I would be using Kero rather than oil. (Speaking of oil, the oil you are using, is it a "cutting" oil). Also I think that the chatter you are getting is because you are not feeding it in fast enough. You have to keep the tool cutting. Try running at a slower spindle speed and feeding in a bit faster. Keep in mind that unlike carbide, HSS will cut at any speed. Another tip I found recently, (on one of the forums I think.) when it starts to chatter it is quite often hard to stop. If you turn the motor off and let the speed rundown while at the same time keep feeding in, quite often the chatter will stop and the finish improve. Once you are back to a smooth finish you can start again.
When its cutting properly you can feel it. It will require a bit of pressure to feed in but not large amount. It will feel smooth. ( Now that I think about it its actually quite hard to describe how it feels) The swarf will peel off very nicely. In a nice free cutting steel the swarf will roll up in nice little coils. Obviously different metals and grades will cut differently.
I just grabbed my camera to head out to the shed to take a couple of pics only to discover that all 3 sets of batteries are flat. Another time.

I hope this helps and I'm sorry if it sounds a bit disjointed. I'm trying to remember things and type at the same time.

regards
bollie7

[Fossil]

If you are quick Smuttley, there is a set of 16 on ebay at the moment. 45 minutes to go.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....m=320319932468

[bollie7]

Stev
How is your parting going? Have you had any success yet?

regards
bollie7

[STEAM]

Stev
How is your parting going? Have you had any success yet?

regards
bollie7

Hi bollie7,

Kody has kindly taken me under his wing, he has asked me for dimensions of many parts of my lathe, so he can draw up a tool holder for the HSS. Once this is complete I will get hold of the steel, and go from there.

It is so nice that people want to help others, encourage and teach them techniques that they have obtained over the years, and I find this forum to be a very valuable resource, not only to me but others as well,

I will post my progress as, and when available,

Regards

Steve