Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Needs Pictures Needs Pictures:  0
Picture(s) thanks Picture(s) thanks:  0
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 37

Thread: Billy Cart #2

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bonny Hills, NSW
    Age
    64
    Posts
    517

    Default Billy Cart #2

    I have just started my second billy cart. Usually I don't publish anything until I am nearly finished as each project takes so long. Working gets in the way of so much!

    Anyway, I started on my next billy cart and although it is slow going I am happy with the progress. I did get help from this forum for both the brakes and scroll sawing the steering wheel - both from the LiliB/Dave team.

    I can't say it is up there with the quality of Dave and Lili or Aussie or Chipman or .....but I am very pleased with current progress.

    The steering wheel is as intricate a piece as I have made to date. It is not perfectly cut but took me more than an hour just to draw it on paper!

    To give an idea of scale (which I should have thought of when doing the photos) the base is 650x200, so this is probably for a 3 to 7 year old. As yet I do not have any grand-children and hope I am not tempting fate with my 21 and 19 year old children but I have got the bug!!!

    It is all western red cedar except for the brake pedal which is silky oak. I plan to make the entire car from cedar.

    For me, any comments/suggestions, etc are always most welcome.

    cheers

    Mick

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Sunbury, Victoria
    Age
    45
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Its coming along well. I like the steering wheel.

    Never fear all good things take time to build.

    Regards Jamie

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Deniliquin - Southern Riverina
    Posts
    313

    Default

    Hi Mick

    I am pleased to see that you have some more ideas on how to manufacture components on your billy cart. The steering wheel looks good.

    When I can tie down Dave to a moment of inactivity in the shed, I'll get him to show you some ideas on steering. Apparently the steering is quite technical but he has solved many of the problems associated with making it hard to turn. It's apparently something to do with caster and camber on the wheels.

    Anyhow, he assures me that steering can be solved, and that there are choices other than the old rope trick.

    If there are specific things you might like to discuss with Dave, PM me and I'll attend to it.

    Cheers
    LiliB

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North Of The Boarder
    Age
    68
    Posts
    16,794

    Default

    I was going to say your a bit old for Billy carts looking good.

    What ever happened to kids building their own scrounging parts needed off old prams and push bikes scooters etc same with the wood from piles on foot paths.

    Kids need designer Bill carts these days

    At a meeting the other day someone said they had priced all the bits needed to build a cart total $350

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bonny Hills, NSW
    Age
    64
    Posts
    517

    Default some progress - brakes and seat

    I did say I was slow in making whatever my current project is. Anyway I have completed the brake (thanks again to LiliB/Dave) and seat (which helps hold the brake). Lucky I have no end date.

    I can't say how well the brake will work with weight and momentum behind it (or whether the driver will be able to do donuts) but it certainly stops the wheel.

    cheers

    Mick

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Newtown Geelong
    Posts
    1,878

    Default

    Mick.What are those wheels made from?
    If plastic ,the centre may break out under braking load.
    Aussie
    Back To Car Building & All The Sawdust.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Deniliquin - Southern Riverina
    Posts
    313

    Default

    Hi Ross and Mick

    When Dave and I discussed steering and brakes, Dave pointed out to me that certainly with steering, there are considerably less complications with a self propelled vehicle than one with mechanical assistance like a motor. For one thing, castor and camber don't come into the equation, because the wheels don't go fast enough to roll over in corners. I would say that even the wheels, in a situation like this, won't have the sort of stresses on them, that one might expect.

    Going on the fact that modern pedal cars seem to be made almost exclusively from plastic, I would say the plastic wheels should do the job. Obviously, it would be ideal to have steel wheels, but even steel wheels today, probably won't be of the quality of the old cyclops pedal cars.

    What impresses me, though, with the whole project, is that Mick is coming up with a real 'niche' product, that should appeal to parents who have a sentimental attachment to their childhoold toys, but like to go one step further with what they buy their kids.
    The finished products should be real collectibles, and I wish Mick the best of luck with his cars.

    They are certainly going to be more than billy carts. Perhaps, in time, he might like to get them on the road at the Billy Cart Championships held somewhere in Western Victoria (Can't remember the name of the little town). Would probably blow a few minds there, and publicise the product.

    Cheers
    LiliB

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Newtown Geelong
    Posts
    1,878

    Default Lili

    Sorry,but we have all seen a billycart derby where the cart gets the speed wobbles,and the driver can't control it.So, over it goes.I have gone from billycarts to radio controlled cars etc.over the years Straight line control needs castor plus you need to go around corners sometimes.Billy carts may get a harder time than kids plastic pedal cars.As you said in billy cart derbys etc.
    Anyway, the thing about the brakes was,you have a thin axle and a wooden drum on it for a brake drum.with a leather belt around it for the band.
    Then a wheel attached to the axle.
    It looks like to me , when you put pressure on the belt to stop the billy cart,that is going faster than a pedel car with a much older kid than what be in a peddle car (heavier) something is going to brake or bend.
    The belt is trying to pull the axle forward
    the axle is thin
    The wooden drum could break along the grain
    The axle/drum could seperate from the axle
    and other problems.
    These carts get up a fair bit of speed down hills and we are talking thrill seekers with no fear.(6 yo up say)
    Back To Car Building & All The Sawdust.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Deniliquin - Southern Riverina
    Posts
    313

    Default

    Hi Ross

    I actually think the whole idea of building such a car is fraught with danger. My first reaction was 'my God, what if the kid falls out and breaks his neck. The public liability of the incident could be horrendous'. That's basically why I asked Dave whether he could think of safer ways to steer and brake, than a wooden block on the wheels and a piece of rope to steer.

    If I went into such production, I would probably want to test the mechanicals on a rolling chassis before I went ahead and built it. I would also want my mechanicals to be made of steel, with the timber just like coachbuilding of the past. I think you have to cover yourself for any luny that wants to sue you for an unroadworthy vehicle, so I wouldn't go there anyhow. I've got too vivid an imagination and can readily think of too many scary scenarios.

    Certainly, you'd have to do testing with the wheels on a steep grade and see how much camber was needed in the extreme speed situation. I'd probably want to talk to a mechanical engineer to ensure my parts were heavy enough in construction to stand up to the potential uses of the vehicle.

    But then, I'm a worry wort, which is why I'm not in business!!!

    Cheers
    LiliB

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    621

    Default

    Steering geometry is a whoel world in itself.

    I read an article a while ago relating to castor effect on bicycles relating to head angle, rake etc. Basically it was a small kids bike NOT designed for any real speed. Little girl gets on and goes down a steep hilll at big speed, and gets the wobbles, can't control it with fatal results. I'm pretty sure the reason was as follows. In effect drawing a straight line down through the head stem to the ground showed that the tyre met the ground at the same point, although the axle is in front of that imaginary lline. This makes it very responsive, but unstable. The further back the tyre contacts the road the more stable, and more of a castor effect.

    On cars camber is designed to assist steering. When turning the steering wheel it is ideal that the tyre rotate near the centre. Which is why upper and lower mounts are differnet. Tow-in is mainly to overcome the drag of the tyres, castor to help the car want to travel striaght.

    As had been mentioned at pedal car speed not a big issue but at billy cart speed control is important. easy to reach 30+ speeds without much of a hill.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bonny Hills, NSW
    Age
    64
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Aussie, LiliB and Brian,

    thanks very much for the comments and constructive criticism.

    Aussie - I appreciate all help and see where you are coming from. I think this car is more likely for a 3 to 5 year old and hope no one goes too hard in it! Your comments also show I have a lot to learn. I have always been a hopeless mechanic and am not really sure why these cars have taken my fancy but I am planning to learn.

    LiliB - with comments like yours, you have a friend for life!

    Brian - I think it will take me a year of study to even understand what you have written! This just shows how little I know about making a vehicle that is designed to 'go fast'!

    Thanks again to you all. I'll be trying to learn as much as I can with each car I build from both a mechanical view and good woodworking.

    thanks

    Mick

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Newtown Geelong
    Posts
    1,878

    Default

    Keep it going Mick.We are just trying to help.
    I think we got a bit out of hand really
    Have a look here&here&here&here & Here

    AUSSIE
    http://www.billycartgallery.com/index.php?cartType=11
    Back To Car Building & All The Sawdust.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Newtown Geelong
    Posts
    1,878

    Default

    Hey Mick,How is the Billycart going
    Back To Car Building & All The Sawdust.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bonny Hills, NSW
    Age
    64
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Aussie,

    I did say I was slow. I have been cutting out and staining the sides for the seat. Maybe by the end of the weekend I will have completed the seat. I am still thinking about what steering mechanism I will be using. Hopefully some more pics soon.

    thanks for the interest

    Mick

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bonny Hills, NSW
    Age
    64
    Posts
    517

    Default seat completed

    to those holding their breath to see my next advancement I am sorry as you would all be dead by now.

    I have completed the seat (well almost - I still have to screw in). I am planning on a boot and then have to tackle the steering.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Bill Cart #1
    By mick59wests in forum TOY MAKING
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 4th January 2009, 10:37 AM
  2. Cart before the Horse
    By joe greiner in forum WOODTURNING - GENERAL
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 14th December 2008, 10:35 PM
  3. Home made Billy-cart Horror stories.
    By tea lady in forum NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH WOODWORK
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 11th July 2008, 03:11 PM
  4. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 28th May 2008, 04:56 PM
  5. Billy Cart Plans
    By Asquared in forum WOODWORK - GENERAL
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22nd June 1999, 10:15 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •