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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Melbourne
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    Default Sealing Baltic Pine Floorboards for Property Rental

    Hello All,

    I've just purchased a 100 year old property in Melbourne that I will be renovating in about 12 months.

    A few rooms have old, cheap (and peeling) vinyl flooring that I'd prefer to rip up - therefore making the house more attractive to renters.

    The whole house has Baltic Pine boards, which we will eventually sand and polish.

    Obviously I don't want to do that before renting, as they'll get all the fun of having beautiful boards! (and probably wreck them somewhat)

    Is there a way of treating baltic pine in such a way that will make it look better than crappy vinyl, but able to be sanded over later? Just some kind of basic sealant I can apply myself?

    The boards have been sitting under the vinyl for a good 30 years.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks

    Teamlort

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hobart
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    Default

    Hi Teamlort

    Our business is buying fixerupperers and then renting them out. Its not a new problem.

    What ever you choose to do most of the effort is in the preparation - so why do it twice? Go strait for your final solution. I recommend as follows:


    • remove old floor coverings, all unwanted nails, etc and clean thoroughly.
    • with centre punch drive all floorboard nails (to ensure tight) and fill holes.
    • if any bad knots, holes, splits, etc, route them out (say 6-8 mm deep) and epoxy in a baltic pine dutchman (ie insert). You rarely need to replace entire floorboards, and the patches later become a design feature.
    • Then put a metal strait edge (metre rule) across the floorboards and check for cupping.
    • If significant cupping, have the floors professionally sanded. You need the right tools, skill to use it, and you do not want to learn on your own floors.
    • If no cupping, sand floors using the largest random orbital sander that you can find... Work through the grits - 60, 120, 250, 500. Vacuum thoroughly between grits. Vacuum twice after sanding.
    • Wipe floor with rags moistened with solvent. (Removes last of the sanding dust).
    • Roll/brush on one coat of two-pot polyurethane. Wait ten minutes then wipe off with an old sheet. (This fills grain).
    • When dry, sand lightly and apply two or three more coats of the 2-pot polyurethane.

    The extra coats of polyurethane gives longevity and a shiny finish that does not need polishing. It is also quite tough and helps protect the timber. It is not "tenant proof" - nothing is for that 2% of tenants from hell - but it is more tenant-resistant than carpets, cork, and almost all floor materials except concrete.

    Cheers

    Graeme

  4. #3
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    Mar 2009
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    Hobart
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    Definitely sound advice there from Graeme , but as a purist, and therefore not keen on loosing the history of the baltic pines aging (colour), I personally would be a little kinder to them and only give a light sanding, then coat with shellac (you can miss this step if desired) and then use a Tung oil based finish (3 coats) such as Feast Watsons Floor seal.

    Whether or not your boards are cupped and therefore need hard sanding may be required is perhaps only something you can probably determine. From my experince/observation most professional timber floor finishers will go the route Graeme recommends. For me the cupping of the boards is a part of the heritage of the timber floor and so in restoring my floors I wouldnt aim to remove this, but perhaps this is not an issue to you ??

    In my opinion, a product such as a Tung oil finish is better for timber (since it is largely natural and re-feeds dry wooden floors rather than plastic coating). From my experience it is also reasonably durable (all floor finishes will wear) and is extremely easy to re-do the next time you wish to, unlike polyeurothane which would require more intensive sanding.

    I have restored all the hardwood floors of my 1840s house, I currently live in using this method, and have commenced using the same method in my 1824 property I have just commenced restoring. This house has both baltic pine and hardwood floors. I have also used a tung oil finish on new floors, and found it to provide excellent results. Dave

  5. #4
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    No real argument from me on your views, Dave, although we could quibble on the semantics of whether your floors should be tung oiled or japanned - really dark stain, almost black.

    Polyurethane is very easy to re-do provided that you do it before it visibly needs doing. We recoat kitchens and hallways (high wear areas) on a three year cycle, and other floors every six years. Just clean floors very thoroughly, ensure no tenant has waxed the floors, roll a coat of thinner over the floor (this softens the surface and allows for a chemical bond), wait two hours then apply the new coat.

    If there is UV damage or visible wear this technique does not work and you have to sand and start again.

    With tung oil, how frequently do you have to recoat? Presume its just a light sand and reapply.

    Cheers

    Graeme

  6. #5
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    Mar 2009
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    Cheers Graeme, I know what you mean re the differences between tung oil and japanning them. I personally tend to favour towards tung oil since I like to see the appearance of the wood grain/colour of the wood which is then offset by the rich colours of the "persian" rugs I have scattered around the floors of my home. I realise that historically jappaning floors was a traditional approach so perhaps if one was being totally faithful in restoring a place this might be more appropriate.

    I think you have hit it on the nail with the issue with polyeurathane coatings that if dealt with on a regular basis it is certainly a good alternative, and in the case of a rental property may even be the best option. I, however, also agree with your observations re the issue of UV damage.

    Your question/comments on how often to recoat tung oil is quite correct from my experience. The time frequency on average is probably around every 3-4 years, but critically is dependant on whether in a low or high use area. For instance in the bedrooms which have rugs covering most of the floor area, I have tended to leave it for longer. While in the entrance ways to the house, the kitchen and dinning room etc they probably need re-coating every two years to maintain their best appearance.

    I think the beauty with tung oil is the simplicity in its preparation for a re-coating, for you are correct I merely give it a light sanding using fine grade paper and then perhaps either one or two coats, depending on just how worn it has become.

    I have just started sanding back and coating the boards in my country house bathroom which I am restoring. Given that the house dates back to 1824, and still mostly has its original floor boards (either wide hardwood, blackwood or very wide baltic) I am being super careful in not sanding them too hard since I dont wish to loose the patina, aging of these. While a lot of work, I only use an orbital sander for these types of jobs and am not even keen on getting rid of any cupping or uneveness in the boards. I simply am ensuring that there are no sharp edges or splintered surfaces.

    I just finished giving the bathroom its second coating and the colour and texture (grain) has come up superbly. I need to give it at least one more coating but will wait until I have finished with the plaster, painting and shellacing of all the joinery, cupboards etc in the room. Cheers Dave

  7. #6
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    Thanks Dave

    We are pretty much on the same wavelength. I also prefer clear or lighter finishes to japanning, but my grandmother would never have agreed.

    Nice to see you supporting the oriental businessmen going out of business.

    Cheers

    Graeme

  8. #7
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    May 2009
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    tasmania
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    OK, this is an old thread, I realise, but this is a challenge i am currently dealing with. My 1880s cottage has baltic pine floors that were originally japanned around the edges, with no evidence of any treatment in the centre of the floors where the rugs would once have been.

    I would like to retain the japanning and bring it back up to strength, particularly in the hall where it will usefully hide the joint where I will need to add new boards where the originals had been water-damaged.

    Reading through the discussion above it seems the suggestion is to use tung oil on the un-japanned bits. I was thinking of a mixture of linseed, meths and beeswax applied with steel wool to assist penetration. Any comments on this?

    Also, I have no idea where I would obtain Japanning paint these days, so if anyone has any ideas in that direction I would appreciate it.

    I don't plan to sand the floors as there has been a very attractive differential wear on the boards with the harder grain standing up and the softer grain dipping down. It looks lovely in its present condition and I am happy to have that older, worn-in look as the cottage is, after all 130 years old, so I would view it as patina. New boards will be sanded and chiselled down to match the level of the older floor at the point of joining - an approach I have successfully used when repairing window sashes that needed the odd patch inserted in them.

    So advice on where to get japanning and how to seal the remainder of the floor would be appreciated.

  9. #8
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    Mar 2009
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    Hobart
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    Hi Blackcat, it might be an old thread but definitely not as old as your baltic floor !! I am not sure where you are in Tassie, but I am happy to make some enquiries with the Paint Right Super store and/or Tas Paints here in Hobart to see if they stock Black Japan or can obtain it. I would have doubted the majors (ie. Mitre 10/Bunnings do, but could be wrong).

    You certainly sound as if you are on the right track in preserving the integrity of the age of the floors in your cottage and I reckon that is great. I havn't tried the mix you were talking of, but it does sound like a decent brew and should enhance the colour, grain and finish of your baltic boards.

    I too need to give consideration as to how I will treat the floor in the hallway in my place out the back of Sorell, as it also has very wide baltic boards which have never been coated. I think the first thing will be to clean them to get the engrained dirt out of them. I might even try out your suggested coating treatment, as I really like to use natural products, ie. oils and waxes.

    I have seen over the years too many people rennovate an old house only to destroy the age/patina of a floor by sanding the living daylights out of it and then coating it with multiple coats of polyurethane. It might look ok in a new place but in a heritage home IMO it is totally incorrect and such a pity when it happens.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    tasmania
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Horsecroft88 View Post
    I have seen over the years too many people rennovate an old house only to destroy the age/patina of a floor by sanding the living daylights out of it and then coating it with multiple coats of polyurethane. It might look ok in a new place but in a heritage home IMO it is totally incorrect and such a pity when it happens.
    Couldn't agree more - it breaks my heart when i see folk doing that sort of thing. I hadn't thought of Taspaints - silly me. They never cease to amaze me with the versatility of their supplies there and their ability to match colours for you.

    I'm not that far from you as the crow flies (out the back of Oatlands), and was once resident in Cambridge, so know your patch pretty well. I will see if I can track down that recipe and will post it here. Most of my stuff, however is buried in a shipping container at present while i camp in the caravan, so many of my books are out of reach, sadly.

    I also have a recipe for a home made paint which is great, and relatively cheap if you have chooks and can get your linseed oil in bulk. I plan to use it on the walls I have just had hard-plastered, once I polish off the layer of lime they left leaking down the surface. I used a tinted oxide in the hall so it is a lovely, dramatic red ochre colour now. Can't wait for the plumbing to be installed so I can start living like a human being again though!!

  11. #10
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    Mar 2009
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    Hobart
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    Great to see you and myself think along the same lines re such matters. I have nearly finished restoring (not sure if you ever do) my current home in NewTown (1840s) and have started on the country place (1824). So am well versed in these matters by now. That and I restore and collect antiques for enjoyment.

    I dropped into TasPaints and asked the question. Their advice was that yes technically they can obtain the raw materials to make Black Japan, but because they would need to obtain a significant quantity of the raw material and then cut it down with a solvent in practice they don't stock it. The bloke I spoke to said the supplier they used to deal with on the mainland used to have it available in small quantities but because of the low demand for it, it wasn't economical to distribute it in small volumes. He did mention that there are some other generic types of a black Japan type finish but it wasn't real Black Japan.

    TasPaints certainly are very knowledgable and helpful people. I can make some further enquiries out of interest.

    I have never tried making paint, but am interested in trying some different types of painted finishes on my other house including perhaps milk paints, limewashes etc. These are available from Fragments in Elizabeth st in Hobart.

    All the best with your place near Oatlands, I can imagine how keen you must be to get into the house and out of the caravan, and have a proper home again. Our Sorell place is a total building site at the moment, and the grounds look like a bomb went off in it. I am looking forward (I think) to getting going and starting the drystone walls etc, and the start of a garden.

  12. #11
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    May 2009
    Location
    tasmania
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    Ah yes, the drystone walls (not to mention the hawthorn hedge) are deferred until next winter. Mine looks as if two alcoholics with no commitment to maintenance lived there with four teenagers for many years (which is the case) and then left it open to the weather for a further three years ... Miraculously enough one of the original cast iron fire surrounds was still there as were two original mantels and a fairly eclectic collection of furniture. I do love a country town for that sort of security ...

    Limewash I make myself. basically just lime and water with an oxide to colour it if colour is desired. The interior of the reconstructed fireplace in the lounge is painted with this to set off the new wood heater (which also cooks). A necessary modern addition, but one that references the fact that room was originally the kitchen.

    It is such fun excavating through the layers of history in an older place isn't it!!

    Sorry for going completely off-topic - oops.

    Last winter in the caravan was not my idea of fun so definitely plan to be out of it before the coming one. Even if I have to lie to Council about where i am living ... But I should have full plumbing and house to lockup by then so it should all be good.

  13. #12
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    Jan 2005
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    Gents, our sister forum (Renovate Forums) has lots of information on this - look here.

    EDIT: "Ladies and gents"

  14. #13
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    I presume you mean ladies and gents? The black cat is a she-cat ...

  15. #14
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    But thanks. I will chase that discussion also.

  16. #15
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    Jan 2010
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    vic
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    Default Criminal damage

    I am converting an 1865 bluestone building near ararat into my getaway. A small room was to become the bathroom. I told the plumber that the thing I cared for most were the baltic pine floors hidden under lino and lined with 1935 newspaper. Anyway, the b..... used a crow bar to take up teh boards to lay the pipes and then did a runner...The question is, how to replace the boards with some new old boards I have purchased which do not have the same wear and tare? Secondly, I have some boards in the main room that are seriously cupped and very dry and I want to know what is the best way to repair th espring damaged boards and to seal the surface without losing the charachter of the boards. Sanding would be a real shame. I have read the earlier post, but would appreciate some comments. Regards, Peter

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