Trailer - to build or not to build

[motegi]

Hi All,

I have been thinking of building a chasis for a ute tub for some time and i guess like most of you after reading Yonnie's and old Dingo's build posts i am too convinced..Yes I can! Damn you lads!

The trailer that I am wanting is more for light duty stuff...ir some lugguage and ski or camping gear (gas bottle fire wood etc etc) this will not be a camper trailer. I may use it move the occasional stuff that may weigh 2-400kg max ( more like 1-200kg).

Yonnie, you're lucky you are in Victoria otherwise i'd be hunting you down to build me a trailer...LOL

The closest I 've ever been to a welder is...errr, never mind!

Theres two ways I want to go about this...

1. design and draw the darn thing and get a metal fabricator to do all the welding and hard yards...ie welding the chasis, fitting the springs and axle on so all i need to do is throw the tub on and put a few screws in...viola! done!

If i go about this route, how much shoulw i expect to pay if i supply them with the axle and hubs, ie they supply metal and weld.

2. Buy all the gear myself and material and have a go myself...I am a keen DIY'er but have never touched welding so long way to learn...If i go along this path what kinda welder do I need to get? If i get a welder it'd prolly be the odd job here and there so i am not so keen on spending too much on it.


Ps anyone in Sydney willing to quote me on the chassis?

Thanks

Eric

[pipeclay]

Is it possable for you to give some dimensions of what your after.

[motegi]

well...I actually have no idea of the dimensions...just that I want to whack a say hi-lux tray on which is about 1805mm x 1515. so the trailer chasis would be say 1600x1200?

I have no idea but i'd say the dimensions are along thise lines...?

[damian]

For what it's worth:

I had an old caravan. Mate and I stripped it to the chassis and fitted a flat bed tray off an old truck he had. If I had known how much work it'd be I'd have gone out and bought a box trailer. Yeah it's big and handy, but it was a lot more work than you'd think.

Just a data point for your to consider.

[Yonnee]

well...I actually have no idea of the dimensions...just that I want to whack a say hi-lux tray on which is about 1805mm x 1515. so the trailer chasis would be say 1600x1200?

I have no idea but i'd say the dimensions are along thise lines...?

That won't quite work...
...mainly because those measurements (1200 chassis & 1515 tray) only allow you 157.5mm perside for rims and tyres. Ah, the traps for new players...

Firstly, find the tray you want to use. Then decide on what wheels and tyres you want to run. From there, If you give me the measurements, I can work out what your chassis width needs to be.

Also, don't get a Dual Cab tray!!! The wheel arches will be too far forward to have the trailer tow nicely without wanting to swap ends on all the time.

[motegi]

Hi Yonnie,

I've just been quoted $700 for the chasis to be built with 50x75mm RHS and something about slip springs ( means nothing to me). As I said I wanted something to take camping which requires driving on corrogated roads, but guy said that the standard trailer chasis wont like that too much.

What is the difference between your run of the mill trailer and one setup to do a little 'soft' off roading?


cheers

[Yonnee]

Hi Yonnie,

Firstly, I'm ignoring the mis-spelling...

I've just been quoted $700 for the chassis to be built with 50x75mm RHS...

Holy Sheet!!! Please tell me that includes brakes!! A complete, new, good quality 7 x 4 sells for not much more than that down here.
The again, your NSW rego authorities seem to be a law unto themselves, creating their own set of rules as they see fit, let alone the outrageous fees you guys have to pay for trailer registration.
Also, I know custom work is always more expensive than standard run-of-the-mill stuff,

... and something about slipper springs ( means nothing to me).

Slipper springs have an eye at one end, and the other end "slips" through the enclosed hanger. Hence, a Slipper spring.

As I said I wanted something to take camping which requires driving on corrugated roads, but guy said that the standard trailer chassis wont like that too much.

The only reason I can think of that any "standard chassis" wouldn't cope with any sort of "off roading", would be if you were skimping on material size, particularly wall thickness.

What is the difference between your run of the mill trailer and one setup to do a little 'soft' off roading?

cheers

Not a lot. Depends on how serious the off roading is, as to the differences in how the trailer is built.

[damian]

He says in the first post "ute tub" which I asume means styleside, thus no need for protruding wheels.

have you looked on ebay ? You cna pick up box trailers, even heavy duty ones, for not much more than $700. By the time you buy a tub, build a chassis, buy the running gear and get it all sorted...

If your doing this for fun by all means, but if your doing it to save money...no hope.

Edit: I see, I misread your post sorry. Your quite right not enough space for the wheels.

[motegi]

Apologies Yonnee!

Thats exactly what i am doing...looking on Ebay for the tub, not bad deals at all.

I've decided to build this thing myself...so watch out for even more questions!!!

Now, Can anyone point me in the right direction on where to get the RHS steel and also a "Trailer kit" ie includes everything i need to build the trailer. Theres a few on Ebay but the cost of postage is prohibitive.

The tub i am getting ( against Yonnee's advise) is a Hilux twin cab tub 1515x1515x450mm, The wheel arches are a little biased towards the front by would building a "tool box" or water tank fix this bias?

Thanks all for your help.

[damian]

Remember I already owned the chassis and got the tray for $100. Still cost me a bomb. Anyway your time and money...

There doesn't NEED to be any welding. You cna do the whole thing with bolts, U bolts and such. It needn't be an inferior job either. There are plenty of boat trailers built that way.

As a rule of thumb you want about 10% of the total weight on the hitch. There are lots of stupid beaurocratic rules about centering load area and such but they are designed to take the thinking out of weight distribution. Be aware that if it's tail heavy AT ALL it'll wiggle all over the road and be very dangerous. If it's overly nose heavy it'll just weight down your car and load up the hitch. Neither are ideal but nose heavy is always better than tail heavy. Sticking a spare wheel on the draw bar often is enough to ensure nose heavy, but keep the heavy items in the trailer toward the front to be sure. If your going to add a tool box or water tank then obviously fit these forward of the axle.

[motegi]

Hi Damian,

Do you mind me asking how much this project costed you? I bought the tub for $150 08 Hilux extra cab tub, looks very nioooce...
well i checked out the prices of material...RHS i think about $150-200 (75x50x3mm) for frame and draw bar ( is this sufficient?) I think I will need only about 12 meters...

I see complete DIY axle kit on ebay for about $280, the rest is just welding consuables right? maybe a lick of anti rust paint...am I missing anything? Perhaps someone can advise what I should use to build frame and drawbar?

thanks

[damian]

Lights, wiring, plug, hitch, safety chain, paint/gal whatever, wheels, tyres. What is in this axle kit ? you need springs, spring attachments, axle, U bolts, bearings, hubs.

All these things are cheap individually but add them up!

I had a functional chassis with breaks etc, but I ended up buying lights, some wire, getting tyres swapped over, that sort of thing. By the time I stuffed around it came to quite a few hundred and 99% of what I use it for could be achieved wiht a decent box trailer. It also consumed probably 100 hours of work, admittedly not efficient work and some of it you won't need to do, but you'll have to do other stuff. I make $30something an hour, so that is over $3k right there.

So you could say my trailer owes me $4k, and trust me it ain't worth that, not even if it were new.

As I said if your doing it for fun go for it, but if you think it's a cheap way out forget it.

If your wheels are forward of center you may find you can't get it registered. You might want to look into that.

[motegi]

Damian,

The kit looks like it includes everything that you need to fit the axle and springs on ie bearings,hib, u-bolts etc. onlt thing that it doesnt include are wheels...hehe

Well, i guess depends on what kind of trailer that you build to determine whether you will make money or lose money...

for example, you may pay $200 for the sides and floor anothe $100 for lights, $50 on paint etc etc...I paid $150 for a tub that has all that...All i need to build is a chasis to bolt the tub on and I am done...well there is a little more since I'd need to build a decent size toobox to centre line the axle etc...

additionally, Ute tub trailers are selling for far more than your standard 7x5 box trailer.

As for the work...It's about the love! I wouldn't do it purely to save money...i dont think anyone on this forum does...

I have a few more Q's

1. How heavy are those ute tubs ( SR5 Hilux extra cab ie 1.5x1.5m)
2. What size RHS should Ii be using? ( i want it solid...without being too heavy)
3. where can I get the steel in Sydney? (preferrably open on saturday)
4. should i bother with landcruiser hubs for soft off-roading?


thanks

[Yonnee]

Apologies Yonnee!

Thats exactly what i am doing...looking on Ebay for the tub, not bad deals at all.

I've decided to build this thing myself...so watch out for even more questions!!!

Now, Can anyone point me in the right direction on where to get the RHS steel and also a "Trailer kit" ie includes everything i need to build the trailer. Theres a few on Ebay but the cost of postage is prohibitive.

The tub i am getting ( against Yonnee's advise) is a Hilux twin cab tub 1515x1515x450mm, The wheel arches are a little biased towards the front by would building a "tool box" or water tank fix this bias?

Thanks all for your help.

I bought the tub for $150 08 Hilux extra cab tub,...

You'll have less of a drama with an Extra Cab than you would with a Dual Cab tub. Adding weight to the front, such as a tool box, spare tyre, etc. would help with the ball weight.

Technically, you also might have an issue with this:

17.2 Rear Overhang

Rear overhang must not exceed the lesser of:
-3.7m; or
-front loading space.

As Damian pointed out, with the wheel arches forward of centre of the tub, it doesn't comply with the Vehicle Standards Bulletin for building small trailers, However...
There's nothing in the regs that states that the "load space" can't be divided into two sections, with a partial section being covered. So, fabricating the chassis so that the main frame, excluding drawbar, is as far forward from the centre of the wheel arches as it is to the rear, and then placing a large toolbox in that space should be OK to comply.

As a rule of thumb you want about 10% of the total weight on the hitch.

I cringe every time I hear this being suggested or recommended. Let me give a couple of examples;
(1) - A light weight 6x4 (220Kg Tare) with a bulky 100kg load that measures 1100mm x 1500mm x 2000mm high. The load is placed such that there's 40Kg on the towball. (greater than 10%) At even 60Km/h, the wind loading on this will be such that there will be negative load on the towball.

(2) - An 8X5 Tandem with 4 wheel brakes & Breakaway, fully loaded to its capacity, being pulled by a '97 Land Rover Discovery.
Axles - 2 x 2000kg Electric
Springs - 4000kg Roller Rocker
Coupling - 3500Kg 50mm ball
Towbar - 3500Kg Hayman Reece
Despite the towbar being rated to carry the weight, the towball load rating on the vehicle is no more than 150Kg, less than 5% of the trailer weight. And yet, 150Kg is a reasonable load to have on a towbar.

[damian]

Your right of course, but most people don't digest let alone apply an engineering thesis, which is why the regs talk about load lengths and the 10% rule. It doesn't always work, but at least it gives something simple to start with.

clause 17.2 you quoted is what I was thinking when he talked about the tub. There is a reason long tubs go for far more on ebay than short ones. As you say the compartment can be divided, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has hassles with rego.

Motegi:

You still have to buy a hitch, wheels, safety chain, wiring, plug and that irrelevant matter of a chassis. Anyway good luck (and I mean that).