Tips for Newbie Huanyang VFD users

[twistedfuse]

Sorry to read of your troubles. Triple check your cable hookups both ends. Have seen similar issue with someone else who wired the neutral phase to an active phase and had a similar issue. Although does not sound good.

Daniel

[twistedfuse]

This isn't a directed comment at anyone here, but more so of a community safety warning to those looking at hooking up a spindle and VFD.

If you are not a qualified person or/and feel you are NOT 100% certain you have read and re-read all the setup and installation details AND feel 100% comfortable to install it, PLEASE DO NOT CONTINUE!!! Save a few bucks and get someone in to do it. Electricity only requires one fault to loose valuable equipment (which i know none of us like having to pay for more than once), valuable assets such as a house (rare but can happen) or injure someone.

We've been lucky in this hobby so far world wide. I've only read a handful of things that have caused harm to someone or to someone loosing valuables such as machines and sheds etc. No one can prevent the natural disaster situation but unfortunately in this age with the government the way they are, it only takes one serious incident to really put a holt on our hobby.

I dont expect anyone to be put off by this, nor should anyone, just don't want anyone to regret pushing themselves in something their not comfortable with and ruining all their hard work for something that may have only cost a case of beer.

[RayG]

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the timely warning, all good advice.

I'm wondering what could have caused the spindle motor to fail, I can't see the how the VFD would cause the problem... I'm thinking the over current error wasn't spurious at all. but caused by a real motor fault.

Perhaps it was one of the air cooled type spindles that cooks below a minimum rpm?

Either way it would be worthwhile to know the reason the spindle motor failed.

Regards
Ray

[Peda]

No offence taken and I totally agree with you, but just to clear the air, I have been repairing electronics and controls systems for over 35 years, including motors and I hold an electrical license as well as first aid. I don't go to the field anymore and I work at home as a consultant technical specialist for service engineers, in Australia and Asia, in my field of employment. So I feel comfortable working with mains power. Not to say it still can't bite me!
I was concerned about making this a public exercise in trouble shooting as Ray and I had been sending private messages before previously about this problem. I am concerned that less experienced people might take this as a lead to try fix a similar problem and I definately recommend against doing that if not qualified. At least we are aware of more parameters than the 183 that seems to be in the manuals. Not that I know what they do .. yet.

I got my hands on a Mega and the motor tests ok ..a mystery at this stage... just pulling it apart now and seems like there is coolant where there shouldn't be. I am using car radiator green coolant, not water. So, best I can hope for at this stage is that my new Lenze VFD is still ok..and if the motor is dead .. maybe get rewound..

Not sure if I will continue posting progress if there is concern of people getting into danger and risk of injury.
Cheers
Peter

[RayG]

Hi Peter,

I'm happy enough to keep it in the public domain, .. and for what it's worth, I've spent 30 years in industrial control systems, nearly always with vfd's some systems up to 8 x 250 kw Danfoss drives, on hundreds of sites, although I'm semi retired these days, I still do consulting and design work. Always safety is always first and foremost.

Back to the spindle motor, I doubt you would have damaged either VFD, they both have enough protection built in to survive shorted motor windings. Although I'd be more confidant of the Lenze surviving than the Huanyang

Regards
Ray

[jhovel]

Peter and Ray,
please do keep updates and their explanation coming here.
There are lots of us here - like me - I imagine, who understand the technology enough to be interested in its problems and their solutions, without the expertise to go fiddle with dangerous voltages. I for one want to understand what's going on, but if mine was to develop the described fault, I'd send it to either of you to fix it - unless the solution lies in the settings.
On the other hand, I do know enough about motors to look inside, check out the wiring, modify a star wired motor to enable delta wiring etc. I have rewound an alternator stator by hand and similar things like it.
I guess that there are others who know their limits well enough not to need patronising or safeguarding by this group....
Joe

[twistedfuse]

Ray, Definitely keep us in the loop with how you go about finding out what is the issue as it will help anyone who might have the same problem, not to mention give you a little piece of mind.
Peter, its a great troubleshooting exercise and great for public vieweing.

I wasn't asking anyone to clarify their experience by any means, especially you two. Your posts are enough to show that you have experience and a world of knoweldge for the troubleshooting.

With Joe i am definitely not an expert by any means but have enough experience working with electronics and electricity to know whats going on and fix things if required. Even i have my own limits of knoweldge as i know most do.

I think my post may have been taken the wrong way though so might look at getting it removed. It was just that i get a few emails from time to time and also reading some threads (happens more so on the zone and others than here) but its becoming more and more frequent that there are some questions posed that make the mind really wonder if that person should even consider it. Even then its not the people posting i worry about as others are very quick to point out an issue and get it sorted but for every person posting a comment there are at least 10 or more people who sit in the shadows and get just enough detail to think its knowledge and do it without posting questions and this is where issues start occuring.

Anyway, there was by no means any "patronising or safeguarding" just wanted to be the voice of common sense as these posts are detailed and informative that can give people a false sense of knowledge.

Daniel

[jhovel]

Well put Daniel. My comment about 'patronising or safeguarding' wasn't actually aimed at you specifically. I heard your voice of common sense clearly.
I just wanted to make sure no-one 'chickened out' continuing the explanation if they thought someone might get themselves into trouble as a result.
Please leave you message - it's a good hint for the unwary.
Cheers,
Joe

[Peda]

Dan you did a good thing so relax. You pretty much described the moral dilema I face most days when I get requests for help from our dealers "engineers" in Asia and just by the question I know they have no idea what they are doing. It basically has to come down to risk management and knowing ones own limits and being responsible for yourself.
I have reached my limit... this motor is toast! The question now is .. did the vfd kill it or was it on the way out. The motor ran well with the new Lenze vfd and no error. It wasn't until I tried to get the Huanyang to work with it did it then burn.
After setting P200 and P209, the error ELus at turn on stopped, which gave me some hope.
I persisted, rechecking params, set the vfd for pot speed control as it was controlled by the Gecko before and wired in the motor.
However, when the motor did turn I got over current error. Still thinking I was getting close and thinking it had to be a setting, I went thru and closely considered any setting that might influence the over current error but all settings were as they should be when it ran before. Running the motor slowly went to error after about 30 secs. Running fast went to error immediately. Eventually, there was an alarming smell.. the motor body was hot.. too late .. burnt out... and yes the coolant pump was running.
After that I decided to pull the motor apart with nothing to lose at this stage. Under the top cap of the motor, there is a black plastic disk covering the top bearing. There is a bolt in the end of the motor armature holding the bearing in place. That bolt is a left hand thread. Took me an hour to figure that out! The windings stink of acrid burnt shellac but there is no obvious burnt or blackened wire. I put new batteries in the borrowed insulation tester but it proved to be a defective unit so I can't confirm the winding insulation integrity but I am convinced they are cooked. I am also convinced the Huanyang vfd is defective, so both units go in the bin!
Called a motor rewinder and it will be more than $300 to rewind.
So.. thats me out of action again for a while. This hobby is getting expensive.
Is there a moral here .. curiosity killed the cat .. comes to mind..
Cheers
Peter

[twistedfuse]

Sorry to hear its toast. Its times like these i hate living on a giant island as getting spares costs twice as much.

[RayG]

Hi Peter,

I'd agree it seems that the Huanyang killed the spindle motor... too much of a co-oincidence for the motor to fail at the same time.

If you like, I'd still like to have a look at the VFD and see if I can see what the problem is.

On the spindle side of things, my son-in-law is a motor rewinder, and I could ask him for a quote on the spindle rewinding.

For what it's worth, I don't think there is anything wrong with the procedure and logic that you followed, I would have done much the same. Why the spindle failed is still a mystery.

So, If you'd like to send me the dreaded "killer" Huanyang I'll see what I can find.

Regards
Ray

[Peda]

Hi Ray, yeah it was a long night last night..thanks for the support.. still it is all a learning experience .. keeps the brain working hopefully... You must be a glutton for punishment and if you are keen I will send you the "killer beast" and the spindle too if that works out cheaper than getting another from China.. I think I still have your address in one of the PM you sent. Pm me regarding the rewind and we will see if it is worthwhile.
I am sure the Lenze vfd will be ok.. it seems like a good unit and the manual is excellent.. and there is local support just down the road from me.. if only they sold spindles too..
thanks
Peter

[RayG]

Hi Peter,

I've asked the question about rewinding, and he'd like to look at it before quoting, Looking at the prices of spindle motors on ebay, I'm a bit doubtful that a rewind would be cheaper than a new motor. Still, it costs nothing to get a quote.

Send it along with the VFD, and we will see what the rewind cost would be.

Regards
Ray

[Peda]

Hi Ray, I made contact with a Cinese spindle manufacturer via the Made In China web site. A quote came back of $525 for the spindle and $195 for the vfd plus $98 delivery. I told him I got a spindle that looked exactly like his and vfd for less than half the cost of his spindle, including delivery via EBay. His comment was his product was better quality. He was very.. won't say pushy.. but determined to get a sale.. he even rang me at home.. but it was a bad line so I hung up. He emailed me several more times until he got the message I wasn't buying from him.
So, to buy another Chinese spindle or not. The home financial director rebukes me for buying cheap and of doubtfull quality but where else do you get spindles if not from China? At least I have a good quality vfd now.
I will take the spindle and vfd to the PO to get a price on postage and see if worth sending both to you or just the vfd. There will be a lot of labour to rewind the motor which I guess will be the killer on price.
Thanks
Peter

[twistedfuse]

Peter,

I've sent boxes about the size and weight of what a spindle/vfd would fit in via registered Australia Post and it was around the $20 mark for memory. I would say whatever it will be, will be worth your while.

Chinese sellers are very good at their customer contact. I once looked at a small hand held wet polisher for polishing decorative concrete and recieved an email once every 2 days for 3 months asking if i was ready yet. lol. Determined indeed but gets old fast especially when you've already told them your not interested.

Daniel