Sharpening - The Wire Edge

[silentC]

When using scary-sharp to sharpen my plane blades, I found that the wire edge which formed was quite visible to the naked eye. It was more than just a burr which could be felt. When you pulled it around and polished it off, it could be seen sitting on the sandpaper and you could pick it up. It was like a very fine piece of wire.

No matter how long I polished on the water stones, the best I could achieve was a burr.

I guess one of these two situations represents a problem with technique. So which one?

[derekcohen]

Silent

In my experience (quite limited compared to many others here), the wire edge is quite fine and almost invisible. Therefore, what you are describing after using SS sounds like a real "burr", the type you get (or seek to get) on a scraper. In other words, when the metal has actually folded over.

I bought a chisel on eBay a week or so ago and, on sharpening it at home, found that I was getting this burr. This said to me that, in this case, the steel was too soft. It just folded under pressure. Perhaps the steel of your blade is softer than you realise, or that you are using far too much downforce, or both. I suspect that SS may encourage greater downforce than a waterstone since it presents a harder surface.

My .02

Reards from Perth

Derek

[silentC]

I suppose the problem is that I don't really know what I'm looking at. In the case of my #4 plane blade and S/S, it seemed to me that the steel had worn so thin that it could no longer stay rigid and had wrapped around. It was almost as if it was peeling. Then when you polish it off, it looks like wire. This made me believe that I was witnessing the famous wire edge.

As I said, I've been unable to produce the same affect with the #78 blade on the waterstone. I haven't tried it with scary sharp. Maybe the steel in the blade of my #4 is softer.

With the #78, I could feel, but not see, a burr, which just feels like it is catching on your thumb as you rub the edge.

[derekcohen]

Silent

Mmm. That does sound as if you've been comparing apples (#4) and oranges (#78). Perhaps the #4 is too soft and it is time for a new blade! If so, consider either a Hock or a LN Stanley Replacement. Add the matching chipbreaker and you will not recognise the plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Driver]

Silent

a LN Stanley Replacement. Add the matching chipbreaker and you will not recognise the plane.

Darren

I can vouch for that. My #4 is a recent model - from the UK. I think yours is an older unit?

I found that fitting the LN replacement blade and the new LN chipbreaker absolutely transformed the plane.

Back on topic: I haven't yet had much practice with my new waterstones but I can say that one of the differences from Scary Sharp is that because they feel different from the hard surface of sandpaper on glass, you tend to use less pressure with waterstones. The feedback from the stones is just different enough to make you want to back off a bit. Not sure whether that's good or bad technique.

Col

[silentC]

My #4 belonged to my grandfather. It was made in Canada of all places - but great things come out of Canada.

The blade is quite badly out of shape around the slot. I gave up trying to flatten it. It was all I could do to get it lined up properly in the guide so that the bevel was at 90 degrees to the edge of the blade.

I was looking at prices of Hock blades on the Lee Valley site the other day and I was surprised how relatively cheap they are. Might have to save up my pocket money.

[Ben from Vic.]

Silent,

LN blades are on sale at Mik right now, I'm not sure if they'll have what you want though.

Ben.

[silentC]

Had a quick look and they've got a replacement blade for #4 ($67.39) but couldn't see the chip breaker. The Hock blades are around $US30 but then there's postage...

Where did you get yours, Col?

[Driver]

I ordered them directly from Lie-Nielsen via their website. Delivery in about a week and freight costs that kept the blade/chipbreaker combination to about $85 AUS.

Incidentally, I've just bought a LN low angle jack plane by the same means. It's very impressive. There's another thread somewhere that talks about using a low-angle LN plane for cranky-grained hardwood. Gave it a go on the weekend on a bit of tricky jarrah and I was surprised at how little tear-out it produced.

Col

[derekcohen]

Col

NOW I'm jealous. A LN low angle jack. Well you know what I want for Christmas!

Silent

If the Hock blades are $30 USD, then they are a bit cheaper than the LN, which are $35 USD. See http://www.lie-nielsen.com/blades.ht...95560234103664

Shipping costs will be $9 USD if you use USPS Priority Mail.

With conversion to AUD, you are still way ahead of the best local prices (I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in paying the higher price - because this is made up of the local retailer purchasing the item at the same price as us from the USA, then adding on their cut - which is fair enough but I can do the importing as well as they. Enough already Derek).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Barry_White]

Silent

As an apprentice Pattermaker over 50 years ago I was taught to remove the wire edge by running the plane iron, chisel or gouge edge across the corner of a piece of softwood.

Now all my chisels, planes and gouges are from 30 to over 50 years old and as I have said before I sharpen them with a electric grinder and a cheap oilstone and have no trouble getting a very sharp edge and I believe it is the quality of the steel rather than the method of sharpening that determines a sharp tool that holds an edge.

But I also believe than no amount of sharpening will produce a good edge on poor quality steel.

As Derek says I think you will find on good steel you will find you will only get a very fine wire edge that is easy to remove.

[silentC]

... I believe it is the quality of the steel rather than the method of sharpening that determines a sharp tool that holds an edge.

I think that is a very important point. By the way, I'm working exclusively with the original Stanley blades here (as far as I can tell).

There's another thread somewhere that talks about using a low-angle LN plane for cranky-grained hardwood

I started a thread like that. Could it have been mine? If so, next time I'm in Perth (maybe next year) I demand a go. If not ... well I demand it anyway

[Caliban]

Listen you Bolshy barst$%d
Stop asking for a go of everyone's tools, people will start to wonder about you. We don't need a poll guessing the reason for the silent letter in your handle.(no pun intended, but it's funny all the same)
cheers
desperately seeking a funny signature,
Jim

[silentC]

Hey Jim, the 'C' stands for 'congenial'

Or, you could read a bit of Coleridge if you want the truth

[Driver]

I started a thread like that. Could it have been mine? If so, next time I'm in Perth (maybe next year) I demand a go. If not ... well I demand it anyway

Darren - I think it was your thread - and when you get over to Perth you'd be very welcome to have a go at the LN. If you timed it right, you might make it for the great planeathon that is being planned by Derek and Wood Borer. (Rocker would regard this event as a summit for what he calls planeophiles but we know he's only jealous! )

Col